Vivian's small step, therapies

[from Mary Powers 980823)]

Dick R. (980823.0003CDT]

When Vivian is holding Aaron's shoulder so he won't act up, she is
controlling for her perception of him sitting in the chair and not
disturbing people. As far as he is concerned, she is an overwhelming
disturbance - she is preventing him from controlling for bouncing around in
the restaurant.

I don't think she is controlling his behavior. That is a typical way of
describing the situation, and I think it's misleading. She's not getting
inside his head setting reference signals OR firing neurons that make
muscles move.

Dick R. and Bruce K.

I'm interested in your discussion of Bioenergetics and Alexander Technique.
I myself have had a number of Feldenkrais sessions, and am currently trying
Bowen therapy. What all these four have in common are a) a listing in the
bodywork issue of a New Age publication out of Boulder CO called Nexus, and
b) a listing on a website called quackwatch.com, which is dedicated to
warning people about misguided therapies like these. (There are lots of
other therapies that share these circumstances, but I am only addressing
these four)

There is, in my view, a certain similarity in these approaches. The first -
and worst - is what I consider hocus-pocus theorizing about how they work.
Lots of talk about energy flow and balancing and stuff. However, the second
thing they have in common is effectiveness. At a pragmatic level, I have no
complaints, while I have a lot of complaints about mainstream, conventional
physical therapy.

My experience with PT is that the idea is to overpower the problem. Stretch
those tendons, strengthen those muscles, push on that leg to make the knee bend,
and never mind that it hurts! This impresses me as trying to cure a
conflict by supporting one side of it and overwhelming the other. The
"alternative" therapies, to me, appear to seek out tension (conflict) and
gently relax it. In some sense, it involves "showing" a set of muscles that
it is no longer necessary to tense up trying to resist that years-ago car
accident.

My brief acquaintance with two of these therapies carries, for me, a whiff
of the MOL (method of levels) process. That conflict resolution exists at a
physiological level. This is where I see these therapies possibly
intersecting with PCT.

And then again, maybe not.

Mary P.

[From Dick Robertson, 980834.0822CDT]

Mary Powers wrote:

[from Mary Powers 980823)]

Dick R. (980823.0003CDT]

When Vivian is holding Aaron's shoulder so he won't act up, she is
controlling for her perception of him sitting in the chair and not
disturbing people. As far as he is concerned, she is an overwhelming
disturbance - she is preventing him from controlling for bouncing around in
the restaurant.

I don't think she is controlling his behavior. That is a typical way of
describing the situation, and I think it's misleading. She's not getting
inside his head setting reference signals OR firing neurons that make
muscles move.

I'll show what you said here, but it's about the same as I have been
saying and so far the discussion
starts to go like it did in the coercion debates. I'll keep you posted
on progress.

Dick R. and Bruce K.

I'm interested in your discussion of Bioenergetics and Alexander Technique.
I myself have had a number of Feldenkrais sessions, and am currently trying
Bowen therapy.

What is Bowen therapy, Mary? That's one I haven't heard of.

There is, in my view, a certain similarity in these approaches. The first -
and worst - is what I consider hocus-pocus theorizing about how they work.
Lots of talk about energy flow and balancing and stuff. However, the second
thing they have in common is effectiveness. At a pragmatic level, I have no
complaints, while I have a lot of complaints about mainstream, conventional
physical therapy.

I agree about the effectiveness part, with Bioenergetics, at least. As
to the theorizing part - I
think it's like the "theorizing" that has gone on forever with "natural"
or shaman remedies. Some
very good observers, over long periods of time, notice how certain
herbs, practices, etc., have certain
beneficial effects. So in promoting them they "explain" them in terms
of acceptable views in whatever
are the belief systems in the culture.

I like your speculation about gently encouraging muscle patterns instead
of overwhelming them. I have
to admit that some B/E practices can be painful - not as a direct goal,
but from trying to push some
movement to its limits, so as to exhaust the person's tendency to hold
back.

My experience with PT is that the idea is to overpower the problem. Stretch
those tendons, strengthen those muscles, push on that leg to make the knee bend,
and never mind that it hurts! This impresses me as trying to cure a
conflict by supporting one side of it and overwhelming the other. The
"alternative" therapies, to me, appear to seek out tension (conflict) and
gently relax it. In some sense, it involves "showing" a set of muscles that
it is no longer necessary to tense up trying to resist that years-ago car
accident.

My brief acquaintance with two of these therapies carries, for me, a whiff
of the MOL (method of levels) process. That conflict resolution exists at a
physiological level. This is where I see these therapies possibly
intersecting with PCT.

Yeah, I keep looking for that too. So far maybe not with enough
concentrated explorations to see much.

And then again, maybe not.

Best, Dick R.