( Gavin
Ritz 2010.12.22.8.31NZT)
A further note Richard, you make the customary accusation
of patriotism against the right, yet are spouting economic nationalism,
demonizing the export of jobs. You impune the character of managers in
corporate power, yet don’t seem to find the intent of those often elected to
office much more to your liking, blaming those elections on corporate money,
apparently considering the electorate of low character or easy to
deceive. Just where do the people of noble purpose who can be trusted to
govern without troublesome constitutional constraints come from, and can they
be trusted to obey the constitution and transfer this unconstrained power when
someone else is elected?
Interesting opinion Martin.
Isn’t this all about a Trust
inducing Society? After all isn’t life a social affair.
Looks like you are talking about abrogation
of accountability here. Is this not part of the basic trust breakdown between
individuals.
We’re good they are bad scenario, interesting
position.
Here on this list is just a microcosm of
what’s going on in the greater society.
This is what I’ve been on about,
about this list and Trust.
Have a good holiday.
Regards
Gavin
Martin L from cellphone
···
-----Original message-----
From: Martin Lewitt mlewitt@COMCAST.NET**
To:** CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU**
Sent:** Thu, Jan 1, 1970 00:00:00 GMT+00:00**
Subject:** Re: Wealth Disparity
[ Martin Lewitt
Dec 20, 2010 2313 MST]
On 12/20/2010 11:04 PM, Richard Marken wrote:
[From Rick Marken (2010.12.20.2200)]
Martin Lewitt (Dec 20, 2010 2042 MST)–
Rick Marken (2010.12.20.1910)–
There is no question what would happen if we lost expert
management
like this:…In other words, get rid of the expert managers and
we would be taking a giant step back toward the US economy pre
1980,
when there was still a strong middle class…
At least the private managers of the world must face market discipline
and
are easily gotten rid of when they fail. Government central planning
technocrats with coercive power are harder to get rid of.
Boy, you reactionaries really do live in an alternative universe. It’s
“market discipline” that rewards these turkeys for managing
(through
lay-offs, mergers, off-shoring labor, etc.) to produce big short term
profits at the expense of the long term viability of the business. And
these managers are very tough to remove since the board of director’s
bread is directly buttered by the short sighted actions of these
greedy toadies.
It is short sighted because the tax system bias against equity has them loading
the corporations with debt, so they have to make hay before the s**t hits the
fan. If the corporations were more dependent upon equity for funding, they
would have to respond to the stockholders. In the current situation, if
investors don’t like the management of a corporation, they don’t bother with
governance, they just sell and buy a better managed company. There is also some
need for governance reforms so that executives and boards don’t operate against
the interests of shareholders, requiring stockholder votes for golden
parachutes and poison pills might help for instance, perhaps poison pills
should be sunsetted so they have to be explicitly renewed. Sunsetting is needed
in many laws as well.
Government “technocrats” can, in principle, be removed from
power much
more easily than private managers; all it used to take was an
election.
Not if they are civil service.
But it’s harder to remove the government technocrats these
days because elections can now be legally purchased by corporations.
So it is hard to get rid of government technocrats but it’s not the
“central planning” technocrats (I presume you mean New Deal
Democrats
like me) that are hard to get rid of these days; it’s the right wing,
no regulation technocrats that are stuck in power now; your kind of
people; government workers who hate government.
That doesn’t sound like the NASA, FDA. CIA and EPA that I know.
By the way, it’s kind of interesting that all this anti-government
crap from the right wingnuts really only started in about 2008. It
seems that we only get the “blow up the government” types when
there’s
a Democrat in office. When there’s a Repukelican in office it’s all
about “respect for the office of President” and
“Patriotism” and “God
Bless America”.What gives?
The “wingnuts” have been for constitutional super majority
constraints all along. It was earlier than 2008, in the 2006 election when the
Repubs were ousted that it went mainstream, and with the financial crisis, it
became angry. Hey, fanatical fervor for limited government is a fortunate
circumstance, imagine if it had been for a centrally planned state with a
personality cult leader. It is a strange patriotism on the right, because it is
more committed to the constitution than to any personalities. Despite its
origins, the Pledge of Allegiance, government employees lead our children in
reciting in state run schools, still pledges allegiance to the
“Republic” and not to any specific leader.
Martin L
Rick