What is I?

[From Dan Palmer (2000.04.22.1440)]

Just a quick question about the PCT referent of "I"

Copied from [Rick Marken (2000.04.21.1820)]:

You control your perceptions and I control mine.

Yes.

Technically, in PCT, is the "I" that controls "my" perceptions equated
with a skin-bounded organism or with the entire hierarchy of
interlocking control loops that defines a person? If the latter, does
that hierarchy include controlled variables, and if so, is the
psychological individual different from the biological individual in
that the psychological individual extends outside the skin?

Cheers,
Dan Palmer

[From Bruce Nevin (2000.04.22.1307 EDT)]

Dan Palmer (2000.04.22.1440)]

···

At 02:42 PM 04/22/2000 +1000, Dan Palmer wrote:

does
that hierarchy include controlled variables, and if so, is the
psychological individual different from the biological individual in
that the psychological individual extends outside the skin?

Gregory Bateson used the example of a blind person using a cane. Does the
person end at the fingertips? at the tip of the cane? partway along the cane?

        Bruce Nevin

[From Rick Marken (2000.04.22.1100)]

Dan Palmer (2000.04.22.1440)

Technically, in PCT, is the "I" that controls "my"
perceptions equated with a skin-bounded organism or
with the entire hierarchy of interlocking control loops
that defines a person?

"I" and "my" are not technical terms in PCT. In the context
of Norman Hovda's statement that "you control your perceptions
and I control mine" I assumed he meant that "the control systems
within the envelope of my own cellular organization control their
own perceptual variables, not any of the perceptual variables
within anyone else's cellular organization", which is, of course,
true. I can't control any of the perceptions being controlled by
the perceptual control systems within _your_ cellular orgaization.

So, yes, I did equate the use of "I" in "you control your
perceptions and I control mine" with the "skin-bounded organism".

Best

Rick

PS. Hooray for the US government's absolutely appropriate use of
coercion to free Elian from his kidnappers and returning him to
his father. Now I'm trying to think of some penalty, short of
painful death, that would be appropriate for the kidnappers. If
that were my, kid I would want to do the torturing personally!
(Sorry, I guess I got a little personally involved since the kid
reminded me so much of my own beloved son).

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken/