a clear step-by-step procedure?

Hi Alex,

I don’t know if anybody answered your request. For doing TCV you need to understand PCT (Bills’ version not other home made versions). But till now I saw just your strong resistance to PCT. So what to do ?

Best,

Boris

···

From: Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 4:36 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: TCV: a clear step-by-step procedure?

Hey, Adam and I are trying to take the TCV seriously, but we would like to have it in a clear logical step-by-step way so that it is concrete. I know these has been around there in many papers, but I wonder if someone could just share the “cooking recipe” so as to be clear when a variable can be ruled out as a controlled variable, and when it can still be one (although one is never sure it must be). Thanks, Alex


Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD

Research Group Leader

Instituto de Neurociencias

behavior-of-organisms.org

i’d still appreciate a clear TCV step-by-step.

my resistance is disdain based on my experience in csgnet as mostly ramblings, gossip and very little open science spirit.

···

Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD

Research Group Leader

Instituto de Neurociencias

behavior-of-organisms.org

Well Alex as usually I have to agree with you. But I hope we are not talking about all members on CSGnet in the same manner. There are differences between them. So maybe we could not generally talk about CSGnet as mostly ramblings etc., but speciffically from member to member. Differences among living beings are genetically produced. As you found the limits of genetical variations in “worm moving”, we can find them everywhere. Natural genetic variations are the bases for mutual understanding in inclusive society.

Best,

Boris

···

From: Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2018 8:30 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: a clear step-by-step procedure?

i’d still appreciate a clear TCV step-by-step.

my resistance is disdain based on my experience in csgnet as mostly ramblings, gossip and very little open science spirit.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 20:19, Boris Hartman boris.hartman@masicom.net wrote:

Hi Alex,

I don’t know if anybody answered your request. For doing TCV you need to understand PCT (Bills’ version not other home made versions). But till now I saw just your strong resistance to PCT. So what to do ?

Best,

Boris

From: Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 4:36 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: TCV: a clear step-by-step procedure?

Hey, Adam and I are trying to take the TCV seriously, but we would like to have it in a clear logical step-by-step way so that it is concrete. I know these has been around there in many papers, but I wonder if someone could just share the “cooking recipe” so as to be clear when a variable can be ruled out as a controlled variable, and when it can still be one (although one is never sure it must be). Thanks, Alex


Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD

Research Group Leader

Instituto de Neurociencias

behavior-of-organisms.org


Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD

Research Group Leader

Instituto de Neurociencias

behavior-of-organisms.org

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET]

Alex, I provided references on April 13, but I mistakenly gave the wrong page number for the Google Books rendition of Runkel (2003). The correct reference is 4 pages earlier, on p. 77, not p. 81. However, I quoted Phil providing references to Powers (1973, 1979) as the sources that he paraphrased.

With the correct page number, the reference is as follows:

Phil Runkel spells it out in a clear, logical, concrete, step-by-step way on p. 81 of People as Living Things: The psychology of perceptual control.

https://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&id=1XGnJPjfJjEC#v=onepage&q&f=false

“The procedure is contained in the following nine steps. I have rephrased them from Powers’s 1973 book, pages 232-246, and his 1979a (vol. 4 no. 8, September) article, pages 110, 112.”

We can freely read this PDF on Google books but we can’t download it. My attempt to download created a PDF image of the entire tab in my browser. Google grabs an unnecessarily large swathe of screen real estate at the top, so I had to reduce the size of the page image to fit. Zooming the attached PDF image should be clearer than the JPEG screen capture that is also attached, but take your pick.

People as Living Things-77.pdf (410 KB)

···

On Mon, Apr 30, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com wrote:

i’d still appreciate a clear TCV step-by-step.

my resistance is disdain based on my experience in csgnet as mostly ramblings, gossip and very little open science spirit.

On Mon, 30 Apr 2018 at 20:19, Boris Hartman boris.hartman@masicom.net wrote:

Hi Alex,

I don’t know if anybody answered your request. For doing TCV you need to understand PCT (Bills’ version not other home made versions). But till now I saw just your strong resistance to PCT. So what to do ?

Best,

Boris

From: Alex Gomez-Marin agomezmarin@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2018 4:36 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: TCV: a clear step-by-step procedure?

Hey, Adam and I are trying to take the TCV seriously, but we would like to have it in a clear logical step-by-step way so that it is concrete. I know these has been around there in many papers, but I wonder if someone could just share the “cooking recipe” so as to be clear when a variable can be ruled out as a controlled variable, and when it can still be one (although one is never sure it must be). Thanks, Alex


Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD

Research Group Leader

Instituto de Neurociencias

behavior-of-organisms.org


Alex Gomez-Marin, PhD

Research Group Leader

Instituto de Neurociencias

behavior-of-organisms.org

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

As with must such questions, I doubt that there is a black-and-white

all-purpose answer to this. So let’s take a PCT-based approach: (1)
ask what you are trying to achieve, (2) Ask how your perception of
the situation differs from how you would like it to be (what you are
trying to achieve), (3) Ask if you have a means to make your
perception closer to its reference value (what you are trying to
achieve). You are starting with question (3), which leads to a
different way of thinking. It is like saying “I have this thing
called a screwdriver . Now what can I do with it?”. The answer would
be “if you have a screw of the right type, you can use it and the
screw to attach one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the right
type’?” “If the things are wood, you want a wood screw, but if they
are metal, you want a metal screw.”
Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can be used for related but
different purposes, and the step-by-step instructions depend on what
you want to achieve. All of them depend on finding a way to disturb
some possibly controlled perception by way of disturbing a variable
in the environment of the organism that might be responsible for the
perception you hypothesise. But after than, there are various
possibilities. The Runkel sequence that was linked a while back is
one of them. (Bruce Nevin [Bruce Nevin 2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET]
reposted it today.
You say you want to know whether a particular variable V in the
environment does or does not correspond to a controlled perception.
You do not say whether this variable lies on a continuum of similar
hypotheses such as V = X+Y, where p and q
are exponents that may take on a range of values your theory
permits, or whether it is of a category that differs cleanly from
other categories that might sensibly be hypothesized to be “the”
controlled variable (the wood screw versus the metal screw).
Powers required two preliminary tests as prerequisites to performing
the TCV (or as part of it), so I’ll include them as steps 1 and 2,
in either order. I will call the hypothesized corresponding
controlled quantity in the environment “V”.

  1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the value V?
  2. Could the subject act deliberately to influence the value V?
    The answers to these questions may be evident, but if not, then
    finding the answers provides two steps of the TCV. For example, in
    the case of the speed-curvature relation, it is not plausible that
    the subject could perceive the power relation while acting in a way
    that produces it, so it cannot be a controlled variable, and must be
    a side effect of controlling something else.
    From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on whether the question is
    a Yes-No (YN) question, a Forced-Choice question (FC) or an unforced
    choice question (UC). These three choices apply mainly to cases in
    which the hypothesised variable is categorical. If V is continuous,
    the TCV becomes an optimization problem. In each situation, you need
    to find a way of disturbing the hypothesized V, but your choice
    depends on the question.
    It doesn’t matter what your question, the TCV will always have one
    or all of three problems. The first problem is that the subject’s
    reference value may change for the controlled perception that is the
    object of your Test, which has the effect of adding noise into your
    measurements; the second is that the subject may stop actively
    controlling that perception during your test; and the third is the
    contextual dependence problem that is simplified in the X+Y+Z
    example below, so you can never be sure that you have captured all
    the inputs to the perceptual function that produces your target
    perception. All three problems are worse in the wild than in the lab, but
    there’s really nothing you can do about that. In the lab you can do
    what psychologists have been doing for a century or more – either
    deliberately increase contextual variability in a random way or try
    to keep the context as stable and as bland as you can. The first
    increases the noise, but gives you much more confidence you are
    right if you get a clear answer, while the second increases the
    likelihood you will get a clear answer, at the cost of lost
    generalizability.
    Despite these issues, the TCV can still be useful as a guide, and as
    an analogy of what we do when interacting with other people. So
    let’s look at the steps that follow the preliminaries, first for
    Yes-No ("is this particular environmental variable perceived by a
    perception that is being controlled?).
    3(YN). Find some action that you are sure will influence V if it is
    not being controlled. If you can estimate the magnitude of the
    effect your influence should have on V in the absence of control, so
    much the better. If not, and you can measure both the magnitude of
    your influence as you randomly change it and the magnitudes of the
    variable and if possible the supposed influence of the controller on
    V, you are still in good shape, because:
    4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly, and the value of V
    changes rapidly but then tends to return toward its previous value,
    then V is related to a controlled perception. It is controlled. If
    it returns toward it earlier value only after you remove your
    influence, or does not return at all, it is not controlled.
    4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V is less than expected,
    or if the effect of your influence is larger when you prevent the
    supposed controller either from perceiving the magnitude of V or
    from influencing it, then V is an environmental variable related to
    a controlled perception. It is controlled.
    4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence magnitude changes have a
    high correlation with the changes in the magnitude of V, and a low
    correlation with the influence of the supposed controller, V is not
    controlled. If your influence is highly negatively correlated with
    the influence of the supposed controller and only slightly
    correlated with V, then V is related to a controlled perception, and
    is controlled.
    In the YN situation, you don’t care whether V actually is the
    variable perceived by the perception that is controlled. To say that
    V is controlled is simply to say that its variation under
    disturbances is countered to some extent by the actions of the
    controller. That will be the case for say, V = X + Y + Z if the
    controlled perception is of X + Y and the other variable, Z, changes
    only slightly compared to the variation in X and Y. But if that’s
    all you want to know, YN is your way to go.
    The categorical (FC) situation is easier. Your question is which of
    a defined list of environmental variables corresponds to a
    controlled perception. Implicitly you are asserting that exactly one
    of the list is correct. 3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the hypothesized environmental
    correlates of controlled perceptions with a randomly varying
    influence that may be the same for all or may be individualized. If
    you are correct that one and only one is the environmental variable
    corresponding to a controlled perception, then all but the correct
    one will vary in a way highly correlated with the changes in your
    influence while the correct one will have a low correlation with
    your influence.
    In the unforced choice condition (UC), you add the possibility “none
    of the above”. If that is the correct answer, then all of the
    hypothesized environmental correlates will have a high correlation
    with your influence. Finally you have the continuous variants of FC and UFC. Here, the
    form of the hypothesised controlled perception is assumed, but you
    don’t know what environmental variable parameter values correspond
    to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or something with a ratio between those
    possibilities? In this case, you only have to disturb X and Y with
    independent random variations of your influence on them, and find
    the X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that gives the lowest correlation
    between the disturbance and the environmental variable.
    I don’t know if these steps are sufficient for your purposes, but
    they might serve as a guide. Ask what it is you want to achieve, ask
    how your current state differs from that, and ask whether the TCV is
    the right tool to allow you to achieve what you want – or at least
    get closer than you are – and if so, which form of the TCV is
    appropriate.
    Martin
···

On 2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin
wrote:

i’d still appreciate a clear TCV step-by-step.

                    Hey,

Adam and I are trying to take the TCV seriously,
but we would like to have it in a clear logical
step-by-step way so that it is concrete. I know
these has been around there in many papers, but
I wonder if someone could just share the
“cooking recipe” so as to be clear when a
variable can be ruled out as a
controlled variable, and when it can still be
one (although one is never sure it must
be). Thanks, Alex

pq

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET]

Martin’s (2018.04.30.15.05) locution “the variable perceived by the perception that is controlled” nicely sidesteps the question whether the variable in the environment is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is controlled, but obscures who or what is doing the perceiving.

The fundamentalist dogma that we control a perception but not that which is perceived is an obstacle to effective communication. I have argued that it is manifestly false. But of course that manifestation is only a perception …

What tangled webs!

···

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

  On 2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin

wrote:

i’d still appreciate a clear TCV step-by-step.

                    Hey,

Adam and I are trying to take the TCV seriously,
but we would like to have it in a clear logical
step-by-step way so that it is concrete. I know
these has been around there in many papers, but
I wonder if someone could just share the
“cooking recipe” so as to be clear when a
variable can be ruled out as a
controlled variable, and when it can still be
one (although one is never sure it must
be). Thanks, Alex

As with must such questions, I doubt that there is a black-and-white

all-purpose answer to this. So let’s take a PCT-based approach: (1)
ask what you are trying to achieve, (2) Ask how your perception of
the situation differs from how you would like it to be (what you are
trying to achieve), (3) Ask if you have a means to make your
perception closer to its reference value (what you are trying to
achieve). You are starting with question (3), which leads to a
different way of thinking. It is like saying “I have this thing
called a screwdriver . Now what can I do with it?”. The answer would
be “if you have a screw of the right type, you can use it and the
screw to attach one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the right
type’?” “If the things are wood, you want a wood screw, but if they
are metal, you want a metal screw.”

Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can be used for related but

different purposes, and the step-by-step instructions depend on what
you want to achieve. All of them depend on finding a way to disturb
some possibly controlled perception by way of disturbing a variable
in the environment of the organism that might be responsible for the
perception you hypothesise. But after than, there are various
possibilities. The Runkel sequence that was linked a while back is
one of them. (Bruce Nevin [Bruce Nevin 2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET]
reposted it today.

You say you want to know whether a particular variable V in the

environment does or does not correspond to a controlled perception.
You do not say whether this variable lies on a continuum of similar
hypotheses such as V = Xp+Yq , where p and q
are exponents that may take on a range of values your theory
permits, or whether it is of a category that differs cleanly from
other categories that might sensibly be hypothesized to be “the”
controlled variable (the wood screw versus the metal screw).

Powers required two preliminary tests as prerequisites to performing

the TCV (or as part of it), so I’ll include them as steps 1 and 2,
in either order. I will call the hypothesized corresponding
controlled quantity in the environment “V”.

1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the value V?

2. Could the subject act deliberately to influence the value V?



The answers to these questions may be evident, but if not, then

finding the answers provides two steps of the TCV. For example, in
the case of the speed-curvature relation, it is not plausible that
the subject could perceive the power relation while acting in a way
that produces it, so it cannot be a controlled variable, and must be
a side effect of controlling something else.

From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on whether the question is

a Yes-No (YN) question, a Forced-Choice question (FC) or an unforced
choice question (UC). These three choices apply mainly to cases in
which the hypothesised variable is categorical. If V is continuous,
the TCV becomes an optimization problem. In each situation, you need
to find a way of disturbing the hypothesized V, but your choice
depends on the question.

It doesn't matter what your question, the TCV will always have one

or all of three problems. The first problem is that the subject’s
reference value may change for the controlled perception that is the
object of your Test, which has the effect of adding noise into your
measurements; the second is that the subject may stop actively
controlling that perception during your test; and the third is the
contextual dependence problem that is simplified in the X+Y+Z
example below, so you can never be sure that you have captured all
the inputs to the perceptual function that produces your target
perception.

All three problems are worse in the wild than in the lab, but

there’s really nothing you can do about that. In the lab you can do
what psychologists have been doing for a century or more – either
deliberately increase contextual variability in a random way or try
to keep the context as stable and as bland as you can. The first
increases the noise, but gives you much more confidence you are
right if you get a clear answer, while the second increases the
likelihood you will get a clear answer, at the cost of lost
generalizability.

Despite these issues, the TCV can still be useful as a guide, and as

an analogy of what we do when interacting with other people. So
let’s look at the steps that follow the preliminaries, first for
Yes-No ("is this particular environmental variable perceived by a
perception that is being controlled?).

3(YN). Find some action that you are sure will influence V if it is

not being controlled. If you can estimate the magnitude of the
effect your influence should have on V in the absence of control, so
much the better. If not, and you can measure both the magnitude of
your influence as you randomly change it and the magnitudes of the
variable and if possible the supposed influence of the controller on
V, you are still in good shape, because:

4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly, and the value of V

changes rapidly but then tends to return toward its previous value,
then V is related to a controlled perception. It is controlled. If
it returns toward it earlier value only after you remove your
influence, or does not return at all, it is not controlled.

4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V is less than expected,

or if the effect of your influence is larger when you prevent the
supposed controller either from perceiving the magnitude of V or
from influencing it, then V is an environmental variable related to
a controlled perception. It is controlled.

4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence magnitude changes have a

high correlation with the changes in the magnitude of V, and a low
correlation with the influence of the supposed controller, V is not
controlled. If your influence is highly negatively correlated with
the influence of the supposed controller and only slightly
correlated with V, then V is related to a controlled perception, and
is controlled.

In the YN situation, you don't care whether V actually is the

variable perceived by the perception that is controlled. To say that
V is controlled is simply to say that its variation under
disturbances is countered to some extent by the actions of the
controller. That will be the case for say, V = X + Y + Z if the
controlled perception is of X + Y and the other variable, Z, changes
only slightly compared to the variation in X and Y. But if that’s
all you want to know, YN is your way to go.

The categorical (FC) situation is easier. Your question is which of

a defined list of environmental variables corresponds to a
controlled perception. Implicitly you are asserting that exactly one
of the list is correct.

3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the hypothesized environmental

correlates of controlled perceptions with a randomly varying
influence that may be the same for all or may be individualized. If
you are correct that one and only one is the environmental variable
corresponding to a controlled perception, then all but the correct
one will vary in a way highly correlated with the changes in your
influence while the correct one will have a low correlation with
your influence.

In the unforced choice condition (UC), you add the possibility "none

of the above". If that is the correct answer, then all of the
hypothesized environmental correlates will have a high correlation
with your influence.

Finally you have the continuous variants of FC and UFC. Here, the

form of the hypothesised controlled perception is assumed, but you
don’t know what environmental variable parameter values correspond
to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or something with a ratio between those
possibilities? In this case, you only have to disturb X and Y with
independent random variations of your influence on them, and find
the X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that gives the lowest correlation
between the disturbance and the environmental variable.

I don't know if these steps are sufficient for your purposes, but

they might serve as a guide. Ask what it is you want to achieve, ask
how your current state differs from that, and ask whether the TCV is
the right tool to allow you to achieve what you want – or at least
get closer than you are – and if so, which form of the TCV is
appropriate.

Martin

[Martin Taylor 2018.05.01.13.05]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET]

      Martin's (2018.04.30.15.05) locution "the variable

perceived by the perception that is controlled" nicely
sidesteps the question whether the variable in the environment
is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is
controlled, but obscures who or what is doing the perceiving.

I dispute that last part "but obscures...". I think it clarifies.
      The fundamentalist dogma that we control a perception but

not that which is perceived is an obstacle to effective
communication.

Maybe, but I think it depends on the context whether that is true.
      I have argued that it is manifestly false. But of course

that manifestation is only a perception …

What tangled webs!

Well, yes. Let me explain.

The reason I carefully used the circumlocution is that while what

you say is technically correct, (the variable perceived is indeed
controlled when the perception is controlled), not all the inputs to
the perceptual function need to be in the external environment, and
therefore the variable controlled may not be completely in the
external environment. So although “that which is perceived” is
indeed controlled, it is not perceptible to any observer outside
that body. When some component of a perceptual function’s input
array comes from memory or imagination, it may not be possible to
combine the externally observable components into some
well-controlled variable that The Test for the Controlled Variable
could discover.

Consider an example. Suppose your own actions were sufficient by

themselves to strongly influence climate change. You want to buy a
new car, and you control a perception of the car you want to buy.
That perception is a function of many variables, including its gas
consumption. You also want to control for a liveable future climate.

Case (1): You perceive the effect of your car's emissions on the

environment to be a “Chinese Hoax”. Your perception of the car you
want to buy is not influenced by its gas consumption (though perhaps
it is by the anticipated budgetary costs of the gas). You buy a big
gas-guzzler SUV, and the result (since your influence is sufficient)
is that the climate soon becomes unliveable, despite your having
controlled your perception correctly with that specific input to
your car purchase control perceptual function output.

Case 2: The same, except that you perceive the effect of your car's

emissions on the environment to be a contribution to the warming of
the climate, so your car-purchase perception includes a reference
component leading toward minimum gas consumption. You buy an
electric car or a hybrid, and the later externally observable
consequence is that the climate remains liveable.

These cases may be extreme when considering an individual, but they

are very real when we consider collective control. If car purchases
collectively are controlled by perceivers of “Chinese Hoax”, the
effect on climate as observed in the environment is very different
from the case if collective control is exercised mainly by
perceivers of the converse – the results of over a century of
scientific work, whichever collective happens to perceive in
imagination the correct effect on climate.

Variables in the ***external*** environment are what people

usually mean when they talk about “whether the variable in the
environment is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is
controlled.” I don’t know whether you do, but the reason I was
careful in my wording was that many people do.

Martin
···

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Martin
Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net
wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

              On

2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin wrote:

                  i'd still appreciate a clear TCV

step-by-step.

                                Hey,

Adam and I are trying to take the
TCV seriously, but we would like to
have it in a clear logical
step-by-step way so that it is
concrete. I know these has been
around there in many papers, but I
wonder if someone could just share
the “cooking recipe” so as to be
clear when a variable can be
ruled out as a controlled variable,
and when it can still be one
(although one is never sure it must
be). Thanks, Alex

          As with must such questions, I doubt that there is a

black-and-white all-purpose answer to this. So let’s take
a PCT-based approach: (1) ask what you are trying to
achieve, (2) Ask how your perception of the situation
differs from how you would like it to be (what you are
trying to achieve), (3) Ask if you have a means to make
your perception closer to its reference value (what you
are trying to achieve). You are starting with question
(3), which leads to a different way of thinking. It is
like saying “I have this thing called a screwdriver . Now
what can I do with it?”. The answer would be “if you have
a screw of the right type, you can use it and the screw to
attach one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the right
type’?” “If the things are wood, you want a wood screw,
but if they are metal, you want a metal screw.”

          Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can be used for

related but different purposes, and the step-by-step
instructions depend on what you want to achieve. All of
them depend on finding a way to disturb some possibly
controlled perception by way of disturbing a variable in
the environment of the organism that might be responsible
for the perception you hypothesise. But after than, there
are various possibilities. The Runkel sequence that was
linked a while back is one of them. (Bruce Nevin [Bruce
Nevin 2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET] reposted it today.

          You say you want to know whether a particular variable V

in the environment does or does not correspond to a
controlled perception. You do not say whether this
variable lies on a continuum of similar hypotheses such as
V = Xp+Yq , where p and q are
exponents that may take on a range of values your theory
permits, or whether it is of a category that differs
cleanly from other categories that might sensibly be
hypothesized to be “the” controlled variable (the wood
screw versus the metal screw).

          Powers required two preliminary tests as prerequisites to

performing the TCV (or as part of it), so I’ll include
them as steps 1 and 2, in either order. I will call the
hypothesized corresponding controlled quantity in the
environment “V”.

          1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the value V?

          2. Could the subject act deliberately to influence the

value V?

          The answers to these questions may be evident, but if not,

then finding the answers provides two steps of the TCV.
For example, in the case of the speed-curvature relation,
it is not plausible that the subject could perceive the
power relation while acting in a way that produces it, so
it cannot be a controlled variable, and must be a side
effect of controlling something else.

          From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on whether the

question is a Yes-No (YN) question, a Forced-Choice
question (FC) or an unforced choice question (UC). These
three choices apply mainly to cases in which the
hypothesised variable is categorical. If V is continuous,
the TCV becomes an optimization problem. In each
situation, you need to find a way of disturbing the
hypothesized V, but your choice depends on the question.

          It doesn't matter what your question, the TCV will always

have one or all of three problems. The first problem is
that the subject’s reference value may change for the
controlled perception that is the object of your Test,
which has the effect of adding noise into your
measurements; the second is that the subject may stop
actively controlling that perception during your test; and
the third is the contextual dependence problem that is
simplified in the X+Y+Z example below, so you can never be
sure that you have captured all the inputs to the
perceptual function that produces your target perception.

          All three problems are worse in the wild than in the lab,

but there’s really nothing you can do about that. In the
lab you can do what psychologists have been doing for a
century or more – either deliberately increase contextual
variability in a random way or try to keep the context as
stable and as bland as you can. The first increases the
noise, but gives you much more confidence you are right if
you get a clear answer, while the second increases the
likelihood you will get a clear answer, at the cost of
lost generalizability.

          Despite these issues, the TCV can still be useful as a

guide, and as an analogy of what we do when interacting
with other people. So let’s look at the steps that follow
the preliminaries, first for Yes-No ("is this particular
environmental variable perceived by a perception that is
being controlled?).

          3(YN). Find some action that you are sure will influence V

if it is not being controlled. If you can estimate the
magnitude of the effect your influence should have on V in
the absence of control, so much the better. If not, and
you can measure both the magnitude of your influence as
you randomly change it and the magnitudes of the variable
and if possible the supposed influence of the controller
on V, you are still in good shape, because:

          4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly, and the value

of V changes rapidly but then tends to return toward its
previous value, then V is related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled. If it returns toward it
earlier value only after you remove your influence, or
does not return at all, it is not controlled.

          4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V is less than

expected, or if the effect of your influence is larger
when you prevent the supposed controller either from
perceiving the magnitude of V or from influencing it, then
V is an environmental variable related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled.

          4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence magnitude

changes have a high correlation with the changes in the
magnitude of V, and a low correlation with the influence
of the supposed controller, V is not controlled. If your
influence is highly negatively correlated with the
influence of the supposed controller and only slightly
correlated with V, then V is related to a controlled
perception, and is controlled.

          In the YN situation, you don't care whether V actually is

the variable perceived by the perception that is
controlled. To say that V is controlled is simply to say
that its variation under disturbances is countered to some
extent by the actions of the controller. That will be the
case for say, V = X + Y + Z if the controlled perception
is of X + Y and the other variable, Z, changes only
slightly compared to the variation in X and Y. But if
that’s all you want to know, YN is your way to go.

          The categorical (FC) situation is easier. Your question is

which of a defined list of environmental variables
corresponds to a controlled perception. Implicitly you are
asserting that exactly one of the list is correct.

          3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the hypothesized

environmental correlates of controlled perceptions with a
randomly varying influence that may be the same for all or
may be individualized. If you are correct that one and
only one is the environmental variable corresponding to a
controlled perception, then all but the correct one will
vary in a way highly correlated with the changes in your
influence while the correct one will have a low
correlation with your influence.

          In the unforced choice condition (UC), you add the

possibility “none of the above”. If that is the correct
answer, then all of the hypothesized environmental
correlates will have a high correlation with your
influence.

          Finally you have the continuous variants of FC and UFC.

Here, the form of the hypothesised controlled perception
is assumed, but you don’t know what environmental variable
parameter values correspond to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or
something with a ratio between those possibilities? In
this case, you only have to disturb X and Y with
independent random variations of your influence on them,
and find the X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that gives the
lowest correlation between the disturbance and the
environmental variable.

          I don't know if these steps are sufficient for your

purposes, but they might serve as a guide. Ask what it is
you want to achieve, ask how your current state differs
from that, and ask whether the TCV is the right tool to
allow you to achieve what you want – or at least get
closer than you are – and if so, which form of the TCV is
appropriate.

              Martin

[Ed Heidicker 2018-05-02_03:17:15ET]

I find it interesting that it doesn’t matter whether purchasing one car or the other affects the overall ‘climate’ when it comes to how you feel when you buy one -the more efficient gas user than another. If one’s decision is that if by buying the more efficient car you are contributing less to pollution then how you feel about what you did changes regardless of the fact that you cannot be certain if your decision did what you thought it did. Perhaps the variable is doing something consistent with your own self definition of ‘someone who cares about the problem of global warming’ which will be sufficient to preclude any dissonance. In this case the action is self-reflexive (to use a General Semantics term) since you are managing the map of yourself.

···

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.05.01.13.05]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET]

      Martin's (2018.04.30.15.05) locution "the variable

perceived by the perception that is controlled" nicely
sidesteps the question whether the variable in the environment
is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is
controlled, but obscures who or what is doing the perceiving.

I dispute that last part "but obscures...". I think it clarifies.
      The fundamentalist dogma that we control a perception but

not that which is perceived is an obstacle to effective
communication.

Maybe, but I think it depends on the context whether that is true.
      I have argued that it is manifestly false. But of course

that manifestation is only a perception …

What tangled webs!

Well, yes. Let me explain.

The reason I carefully used the circumlocution is that while what

you say is technically correct, (the variable perceived is indeed
controlled when the perception is controlled), not all the inputs to
the perceptual function need to be in the external environment, and
therefore the variable controlled may not be completely in the
external environment. So although “that which is perceived” is
indeed controlled, it is not perceptible to any observer outside
that body. When some component of a perceptual function’s input
array comes from memory or imagination, it may not be possible to
combine the externally observable components into some
well-controlled variable that The Test for the Controlled Variable
could discover.

Consider an example. Suppose your own actions were sufficient by

themselves to strongly influence climate change. You want to buy a
new car, and you control a perception of the car you want to buy.
That perception is a function of many variables, including its gas
consumption. You also want to control for a liveable future climate.

Case (1): You perceive the effect of your car's emissions on the

environment to be a “Chinese Hoax”. Your perception of the car you
want to buy is not influenced by its gas consumption (though perhaps
it is by the anticipated budgetary costs of the gas). You buy a big
gas-guzzler SUV, and the result (since your influence is sufficient)
is that the climate soon becomes unliveable, despite your having
controlled your perception correctly with that specific input to
your car purchase control perceptual function output.

Case 2: The same, except that you perceive the effect of your car's

emissions on the environment to be a contribution to the warming of
the climate, so your car-purchase perception includes a reference
component leading toward minimum gas consumption. You buy an
electric car or a hybrid, and the later externally observable
consequence is that the climate remains liveable.

These cases may be extreme when considering an individual, but they

are very real when we consider collective control. If car purchases
collectively are controlled by perceivers of “Chinese Hoax”, the
effect on climate as observed in the environment is very different
from the case if collective control is exercised mainly by
perceivers of the converse – the results of over a century of
scientific work, whichever collective happens to perceive in
imagination the correct effect on climate.

Variables in the ***external*** environment are what people

usually mean when they talk about “whether the variable in the
environment is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is
controlled.” I don’t know whether you do, but the reason I was
careful in my wording was that many people do.

Martin

      On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Martin

Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net
wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

              On

2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin wrote:

                  i'd still appreciate a clear TCV

step-by-step.

                                Hey,

Adam and I are trying to take the
TCV seriously, but we would like to
have it in a clear logical
step-by-step way so that it is
concrete. I know these has been
around there in many papers, but I
wonder if someone could just share
the “cooking recipe” so as to be
clear when a variable can be
ruled out as a controlled variable,
and when it can still be one
(although one is never sure it must
be). Thanks, Alex

          As with must such questions, I doubt that there is a

black-and-white all-purpose answer to this. So let’s take
a PCT-based approach: (1) ask what you are trying to
achieve, (2) Ask how your perception of the situation
differs from how you would like it to be (what you are
trying to achieve), (3) Ask if you have a means to make
your perception closer to its reference value (what you
are trying to achieve). You are starting with question
(3), which leads to a different way of thinking. It is
like saying “I have this thing called a screwdriver . Now
what can I do with it?”. The answer would be “if you have
a screw of the right type, you can use it and the screw to
attach one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the right
type’?” “If the things are wood, you want a wood screw,
but if they are metal, you want a metal screw.”

          Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can be used for

related but different purposes, and the step-by-step
instructions depend on what you want to achieve. All of
them depend on finding a way to disturb some possibly
controlled perception by way of disturbing a variable in
the environment of the organism that might be responsible
for the perception you hypothesise. But after than, there
are various possibilities. The Runkel sequence that was
linked a while back is one of them. (Bruce Nevin [Bruce
Nevin 2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET] reposted it today.

          You say you want to know whether a particular variable V

in the environment does or does not correspond to a
controlled perception. You do not say whether this
variable lies on a continuum of similar hypotheses such as
V = Xp+Yq , where p and q are
exponents that may take on a range of values your theory
permits, or whether it is of a category that differs
cleanly from other categories that might sensibly be
hypothesized to be “the” controlled variable (the wood
screw versus the metal screw).

          Powers required two preliminary tests as prerequisites to

performing the TCV (or as part of it), so I’ll include
them as steps 1 and 2, in either order. I will call the
hypothesized corresponding controlled quantity in the
environment “V”.

          1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the value V?

          2. Could the subject act deliberately to influence the

value V?

          The answers to these questions may be evident, but if not,

then finding the answers provides two steps of the TCV.
For example, in the case of the speed-curvature relation,
it is not plausible that the subject could perceive the
power relation while acting in a way that produces it, so
it cannot be a controlled variable, and must be a side
effect of controlling something else.

          From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on whether the

question is a Yes-No (YN) question, a Forced-Choice
question (FC) or an unforced choice question (UC). These
three choices apply mainly to cases in which the
hypothesised variable is categorical. If V is continuous,
the TCV becomes an optimization problem. In each
situation, you need to find a way of disturbing the
hypothesized V, but your choice depends on the question.

          It doesn't matter what your question, the TCV will always

have one or all of three problems. The first problem is
that the subject’s reference value may change for the
controlled perception that is the object of your Test,
which has the effect of adding noise into your
measurements; the second is that the subject may stop
actively controlling that perception during your test; and
the third is the contextual dependence problem that is
simplified in the X+Y+Z example below, so you can never be
sure that you have captured all the inputs to the
perceptual function that produces your target perception.

          All three problems are worse in the wild than in the lab,

but there’s really nothing you can do about that. In the
lab you can do what psychologists have been doing for a
century or more – either deliberately increase contextual
variability in a random way or try to keep the context as
stable and as bland as you can. The first increases the
noise, but gives you much more confidence you are right if
you get a clear answer, while the second increases the
likelihood you will get a clear answer, at the cost of
lost generalizability.

          Despite these issues, the TCV can still be useful as a

guide, and as an analogy of what we do when interacting
with other people. So let’s look at the steps that follow
the preliminaries, first for Yes-No ("is this particular
environmental variable perceived by a perception that is
being controlled?).

          3(YN). Find some action that you are sure will influence V

if it is not being controlled. If you can estimate the
magnitude of the effect your influence should have on V in
the absence of control, so much the better. If not, and
you can measure both the magnitude of your influence as
you randomly change it and the magnitudes of the variable
and if possible the supposed influence of the controller
on V, you are still in good shape, because:

          4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly, and the value

of V changes rapidly but then tends to return toward its
previous value, then V is related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled. If it returns toward it
earlier value only after you remove your influence, or
does not return at all, it is not controlled.

          4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V is less than

expected, or if the effect of your influence is larger
when you prevent the supposed controller either from
perceiving the magnitude of V or from influencing it, then
V is an environmental variable related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled.

          4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence magnitude

changes have a high correlation with the changes in the
magnitude of V, and a low correlation with the influence
of the supposed controller, V is not controlled. If your
influence is highly negatively correlated with the
influence of the supposed controller and only slightly
correlated with V, then V is related to a controlled
perception, and is controlled.

          In the YN situation, you don't care whether V actually is

the variable perceived by the perception that is
controlled. To say that V is controlled is simply to say
that its variation under disturbances is countered to some
extent by the actions of the controller. That will be the
case for say, V = X + Y + Z if the controlled perception
is of X + Y and the other variable, Z, changes only
slightly compared to the variation in X and Y. But if
that’s all you want to know, YN is your way to go.

          The categorical (FC) situation is easier. Your question is

which of a defined list of environmental variables
corresponds to a controlled perception. Implicitly you are
asserting that exactly one of the list is correct.

          3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the hypothesized

environmental correlates of controlled perceptions with a
randomly varying influence that may be the same for all or
may be individualized. If you are correct that one and
only one is the environmental variable corresponding to a
controlled perception, then all but the correct one will
vary in a way highly correlated with the changes in your
influence while the correct one will have a low
correlation with your influence.

          In the unforced choice condition (UC), you add the

possibility “none of the above”. If that is the correct
answer, then all of the hypothesized environmental
correlates will have a high correlation with your
influence.

          Finally you have the continuous variants of FC and UFC.

Here, the form of the hypothesised controlled perception
is assumed, but you don’t know what environmental variable
parameter values correspond to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or
something with a ratio between those possibilities? In
this case, you only have to disturb X and Y with
independent random variations of your influence on them,
and find the X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that gives the
lowest correlation between the disturbance and the
environmental variable.

          I don't know if these steps are sufficient for your

purposes, but they might serve as a guide. Ask what it is
you want to achieve, ask how your current state differs
from that, and ask whether the TCV is the right tool to
allow you to achieve what you want – or at least get
closer than you are – and if so, which form of the TCV is
appropriate.

              Martin

Ed Heidicker
828 274-5929

[Martin Taylor 2018.05.02.16.28]

[Ed Heidicker 2018-05-02_03:17:15ET]

          I find it interesting that it doesn't matter whether

purchasing one car or the other affects the overall
‘climate’ when it comes to how you feel when you buy one
-the more efficient gas user than another.

That would be true for someone who perceives the "Chinese Hoax"

description of the (non)-effect of the car type on the climate.

          If one's decision is that if by buying the more

efficient car you are contributing less to pollution then
how you feel about what you did changes regardless of the
fact that you cannot be certain if your decision did what
you thought it did.

That may be true after the fact. "Buyer's regret" is always

possible, but we are talking about control during the buying
process.

          Perhaps the variable is doing something consistent with

your own self definition of ‘someone who cares about the
problem of global warming’ which will be sufficient to
preclude any dissonance.

My presumption is that this would be true for both cases. The point

of the message was to suggest that control may not be good when part
of the input to a perceptual function comes from imagination. I
could equally well have used multitudes of different examples, for
instance failure to meet someone at a designated meeting point
because of an imagined perception that the other person had the same
perception of the meeting place and time.

          In this case the action is self-reflexive (to use a

General Semantics term) since you are managing the map of
yourself.

Yes, it has long been taken as a good possibility that high in (or

at the top of) a mature human control hierarchy is control of
self-image as perceived by self, and/or of self-image as perceived
by others. These perceptions are indeed maps of one’s self, and
there is no reason to suppose that either map is a good
representation of the territory. Control of either is more likely to
improve the correspondence of the map to the territory than to do
the reverse. (Some of Warren’s high-level conflicts may be because
of discrepancies between reference values in these two maps, both of
which are tied to the same territory – wanting others to see us in
a way that we do not want to see ourselves).

Martin
···

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Martin
Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net
wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.05.01.13.05]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET]

                  Martin's (2018.04.30.15.05) locution "the

variable perceived by the perception that is
controlled" nicely sidesteps the question whether
the variable in the environment is controlled when
the corresponding perception of it is controlled,
but obscures who or what is doing the perceiving.

           I dispute that last part "but obscures...". I

think it clarifies.

                  The fundamentalist dogma that we control a

perception but not that which is perceived is an
obstacle to effective communication.

           Maybe, but I think it depends on the context

whether that is true.

                  I have argued that it is manifestly false. But

of course that manifestation is only a perception

What tangled webs!

           Well, yes. Let me explain.

          The reason I carefully used the circumlocution is that

while what you say is technically correct, (the variable
perceived is indeed controlled when the perception is
controlled), not all the inputs to the perceptual function
need to be in the external environment, and therefore the
variable controlled may not be completely in the external
environment. So although “that which is perceived” is
indeed controlled, it is not perceptible to any observer
outside that body. When some component of a perceptual
function’s input array comes from memory or imagination,
it may not be possible to combine the externally
observable components into some well-controlled variable
that The Test for the Controlled Variable could discover.

          Consider an example. Suppose your own actions were

sufficient by themselves to strongly influence climate
change. You want to buy a new car, and you control a
perception of the car you want to buy. That perception is
a function of many variables, including its gas
consumption. You also want to control for a liveable
future climate.

          Case (1): You perceive the effect of your car's emissions

on the environment to be a “Chinese Hoax”. Your perception
of the car you want to buy is not influenced by its gas
consumption (though perhaps it is by the anticipated
budgetary costs of the gas). You buy a big gas-guzzler
SUV, and the result (since your influence is sufficient)
is that the climate soon becomes unliveable, despite your
having controlled your perception correctly with that
specific input to your car purchase control perceptual
function output.

          Case 2: The same, except that you perceive the effect of

your car’s emissions on the environment to be a
contribution to the warming of the climate, so your
car-purchase perception includes a reference component
leading toward minimum gas consumption. You buy an
electric car or a hybrid, and the later externally
observable consequence is that the climate remains
liveable.

          These cases may be extreme when considering an individual,

but they are very real when we consider collective
control. If car purchases collectively are controlled by
perceivers of “Chinese Hoax”, the effect on climate as
observed in the environment is very different from the
case if collective control is exercised mainly by
perceivers of the converse – the results of over a
century of scientific work, whichever collective happens
to perceive in imagination the correct effect on climate.

          Variables in the ***external*** environment are

what people usually mean when they talk about “whether the
variable in the environment is controlled when the
corresponding perception of it is controlled.” I don’t
know whether you do, but the reason I was careful in my
wording was that many people do.

              Martin

                    On Wed, May 2, 2018 at

12:12 AM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net
wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

                            On

2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin
wrote:

                                i'd still appreciate a

clear TCV step-by-step.

                                              Hey,

Adam and I are trying
to take the TCV
seriously, but we
would like to have it
in a clear logical
step-by-step way so
that it is concrete. I
know these has been
around there in many
papers, but I wonder
if someone could just
share the “cooking
recipe” so as to be
clear when a variable
can be ruled
out as a controlled
variable, and when it
can still be one
(although one is never
sure it must
be). Thanks, Alex

                        As with must such questions, I doubt that

there is a black-and-white all-purpose
answer to this. So let’s take a PCT-based
approach: (1) ask what you are trying to
achieve, (2) Ask how your perception of the
situation differs from how you would like it
to be (what you are trying to achieve), (3)
Ask if you have a means to make your
perception closer to its reference value
(what you are trying to achieve). You are
starting with question (3), which leads to a
different way of thinking. It is like saying
“I have this thing called a screwdriver .
Now what can I do with it?”. The answer
would be “if you have a screw of the right
type, you can use it and the screw to attach
one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the
right type’?” “If the things are wood, you
want a wood screw, but if they are metal,
you want a metal screw.”

                        Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can

be used for related but different purposes,
and the step-by-step instructions depend on
what you want to achieve. All of them depend
on finding a way to disturb some possibly
controlled perception by way of disturbing a
variable in the environment of the organism
that might be responsible for the perception
you hypothesise. But after than, there are
various possibilities. The Runkel sequence
that was linked a while back is one of them.
(Bruce Nevin [Bruce Nevin
2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET] reposted it today.

                        You say you want to know whether a

particular variable V in the environment
does or does not correspond to a controlled
perception. You do not say whether this
variable lies on a continuum of similar
hypotheses such as V = Xp+Yq ,
where p and q are exponents that may take on
a range of values your theory permits, or
whether it is of a category that differs
cleanly from other categories that might
sensibly be hypothesized to be “the”
controlled variable (the wood screw versus
the metal screw).

                        Powers required two preliminary tests as

prerequisites to performing the TCV (or as
part of it), so I’ll include them as steps 1
and 2, in either order. I will call the
hypothesized corresponding controlled
quantity in the environment “V”.

                        1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the

value V?

                        2. Could the subject act deliberately to

influence the value V?

                        The answers to these questions may be

evident, but if not, then finding the
answers provides two steps of the TCV. For
example, in the case of the speed-curvature
relation, it is not plausible that the
subject could perceive the power relation
while acting in a way that produces it, so
it cannot be a controlled variable, and must
be a side effect of controlling something
else.

                        From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on

whether the question is a Yes-No (YN)
question, a Forced-Choice question (FC) or
an unforced choice question (UC). These
three choices apply mainly to cases in which
the hypothesised variable is categorical. If
V is continuous, the TCV becomes an
optimization problem. In each situation, you
need to find a way of disturbing the
hypothesized V, but your choice depends on
the question.

                        It doesn't matter what your question, the

TCV will always have one or all of three
problems. The first problem is that the
subject’s reference value may change for the
controlled perception that is the object of
your Test, which has the effect of adding
noise into your measurements; the second is
that the subject may stop actively
controlling that perception during your
test; and the third is the contextual
dependence problem that is simplified in the
X+Y+Z example below, so you can never be
sure that you have captured all the inputs
to the perceptual function that produces
your target perception.

                        All three problems are worse in the wild

than in the lab, but there’s really nothing
you can do about that. In the lab you can do
what psychologists have been doing for a
century or more – either deliberately
increase contextual variability in a random
way or try to keep the context as stable and
as bland as you can. The first increases the
noise, but gives you much more confidence
you are right if you get a clear answer,
while the second increases the likelihood
you will get a clear answer, at the cost of
lost generalizability.

                        Despite these issues, the TCV can still be

useful as a guide, and as an analogy of what
we do when interacting with other people. So
let’s look at the steps that follow the
preliminaries, first for Yes-No ("is this
particular environmental variable perceived
by a perception that is being controlled?).

                        3(YN). Find some action that you are sure

will influence V if it is not being
controlled. If you can estimate the
magnitude of the effect your influence
should have on V in the absence of control,
so much the better. If not, and you can
measure both the magnitude of your influence
as you randomly change it and the magnitudes
of the variable and if possible the supposed
influence of the controller on V, you are
still in good shape, because:

                        4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly,

and the value of V changes rapidly but then
tends to return toward its previous value,
then V is related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled. If it returns
toward it earlier value only after you
remove your influence, or does not return at
all, it is not controlled.

                        4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V

is less than expected, or if the effect of
your influence is larger when you prevent
the supposed controller either from
perceiving the magnitude of V or from
influencing it, then V is an environmental
variable related to a controlled perception.
It is controlled.

                        4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence

magnitude changes have a high correlation
with the changes in the magnitude of V, and
a low correlation with the influence of the
supposed controller, V is not controlled. If
your influence is highly negatively
correlated with the influence of the
supposed controller and only slightly
correlated with V, then V is related to a
controlled perception, and is controlled.

                        In the YN situation, you don't care whether

V actually is the variable perceived by the
perception that is controlled. To say that V
is controlled is simply to say that its
variation under disturbances is countered to
some extent by the actions of the
controller. That will be the case for say, V
= X + Y + Z if the controlled perception is
of X + Y and the other variable, Z, changes
only slightly compared to the variation in X
and Y. But if that’s all you want to know,
YN is your way to go.

                        The categorical (FC) situation is easier.

Your question is which of a defined list of
environmental variables corresponds to a
controlled perception. Implicitly you are
asserting that exactly one of the list is
correct.

                        3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the

hypothesized environmental correlates of
controlled perceptions with a randomly
varying influence that may be the same for
all or may be individualized. If you are
correct that one and only one is the
environmental variable corresponding to a
controlled perception, then all but the
correct one will vary in a way highly
correlated with the changes in your
influence while the correct one will have a
low correlation with your influence.

                        In the unforced choice condition (UC), you

add the possibility “none of the above”. If
that is the correct answer, then all of the
hypothesized environmental correlates will
have a high correlation with your influence.

                        Finally you have the continuous variants of

FC and UFC. Here, the form of the
hypothesised controlled perception is
assumed, but you don’t know what
environmental variable parameter values
correspond to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or
something with a ratio between those
possibilities? In this case, you only have
to disturb X and Y with independent random
variations of your influence on them, and
find the X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that
gives the lowest correlation between the
disturbance and the environmental variable.

                        I don't know if these steps are sufficient

for your purposes, but they might serve as a
guide. Ask what it is you want to achieve,
ask how your current state differs from
that, and ask whether the TCV is the right
tool to allow you to achieve what you want
– or at least get closer than you are –
and if so, which form of the TCV is
appropriate.

                            Martin

Ed Heidicker

          828 274-5929

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-03_07:31:33 ET]

Martin Taylor 2018.05.01.13.05 –

Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET –

Martin’s (2018.04.30.15.05) locution “the variable perceived by the perception that is controlled” nicely sidesteps the question whether the variable in the environment is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is controlled, but obscures who or what is doing the perceiving.

I dispute that last part “but obscures…”. I think it clarifies.

Forgive me for being so fussy about words–and we were just talking about what trouble can result from too much punctiliousness. What I mean here is that I have difficulty thinking of a perception as an agent that can perceive. “The variable perceived by the perception” could be paraphrased “the variable which the perception perceives”. An organism with perceptual input functions can perceive. You seem to say that the perception perceives–the perception
which the organism perceives. But the passive is not always a paraphrased by a corresponding active sentence. You might intend “the variable perceived by means of the perception that is controlled” or “the variable that is perceived as the perception that is controlled”. And there are other possibilities:

Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05 –

So let’s look at the steps that follow the preliminaries, first for Yes-No ("is this particular environmental variable perceived by a perception that is being controlled?).

Another way to say this could be “is a perception of this particular environmental variable being controlled?”

In the YN situation, you don’t care whether V actually is the variable perceived by the perception that is controlled.

One might say “you don’t care whether a perception of V is
the variable that is controlled,” or more explicitly

“you don’t care whether a perception of what you perceive as V is the variable that is controlled.”

I’m on the boat to the mainland, and will soon be on the bus to the airport, for a UMD/Smithsonian conference until Sunday. Not sure how attentive to email I will be.

···

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 1:35 PM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.05.01.13.05]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET]

      Martin's (2018.04.30.15.05) locution "the variable

perceived by the perception that is controlled" nicely
sidesteps the question whether the variable in the environment
is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is
controlled, but obscures who or what is doing the perceiving.

I dispute that last part "but obscures...". I think it clarifies.
      The fundamentalist dogma that we control a perception but

not that which is perceived is an obstacle to effective
communication.

Maybe, but I think it depends on the context whether that is true.
      I have argued that it is manifestly false. But of course

that manifestation is only a perception …

What tangled webs!

Well, yes. Let me explain.

The reason I carefully used the circumlocution is that while what

you say is technically correct, (the variable perceived is indeed
controlled when the perception is controlled), not all the inputs to
the perceptual function need to be in the external environment, and
therefore the variable controlled may not be completely in the
external environment. So although “that which is perceived” is
indeed controlled, it is not perceptible to any observer outside
that body. When some component of a perceptual function’s input
array comes from memory or imagination, it may not be possible to
combine the externally observable components into some
well-controlled variable that The Test for the Controlled Variable
could discover.

Consider an example. Suppose your own actions were sufficient by

themselves to strongly influence climate change. You want to buy a
new car, and you control a perception of the car you want to buy.
That perception is a function of many variables, including its gas
consumption. You also want to control for a liveable future climate.

Case (1): You perceive the effect of your car's emissions on the

environment to be a “Chinese Hoax”. Your perception of the car you
want to buy is not influenced by its gas consumption (though perhaps
it is by the anticipated budgetary costs of the gas). You buy a big
gas-guzzler SUV, and the result (since your influence is sufficient)
is that the climate soon becomes unliveable, despite your having
controlled your perception correctly with that specific input to
your car purchase control perceptual function output.

Case 2: The same, except that you perceive the effect of your car's

emissions on the environment to be a contribution to the warming of
the climate, so your car-purchase perception includes a reference
component leading toward minimum gas consumption. You buy an
electric car or a hybrid, and the later externally observable
consequence is that the climate remains liveable.

These cases may be extreme when considering an individual, but they

are very real when we consider collective control. If car purchases
collectively are controlled by perceivers of “Chinese Hoax”, the
effect on climate as observed in the environment is very different
from the case if collective control is exercised mainly by
perceivers of the converse – the results of over a century of
scientific work, whichever collective happens to perceive in
imagination the correct effect on climate.

Variables in the ***external*** environment are what people

usually mean when they talk about “whether the variable in the
environment is controlled when the corresponding perception of it is
controlled.” I don’t know whether you do, but the reason I was
careful in my wording was that many people do.

Martin
      On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:12 AM, Martin

Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net
wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

              On

2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin wrote:

                  i'd still appreciate a clear TCV

step-by-step.

                                Hey,

Adam and I are trying to take the
TCV seriously, but we would like to
have it in a clear logical
step-by-step way so that it is
concrete. I know these has been
around there in many papers, but I
wonder if someone could just share
the “cooking recipe” so as to be
clear when a variable can be
ruled out as a controlled variable,
and when it can still be one
(although one is never sure it must
be). Thanks, Alex

          As with must such questions, I doubt that there is a

black-and-white all-purpose answer to this. So let’s take
a PCT-based approach: (1) ask what you are trying to
achieve, (2) Ask how your perception of the situation
differs from how you would like it to be (what you are
trying to achieve), (3) Ask if you have a means to make
your perception closer to its reference value (what you
are trying to achieve). You are starting with question
(3), which leads to a different way of thinking. It is
like saying “I have this thing called a screwdriver . Now
what can I do with it?”. The answer would be “if you have
a screw of the right type, you can use it and the screw to
attach one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the right
type’?” “If the things are wood, you want a wood screw,
but if they are metal, you want a metal screw.”

          Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can be used for

related but different purposes, and the step-by-step
instructions depend on what you want to achieve. All of
them depend on finding a way to disturb some possibly
controlled perception by way of disturbing a variable in
the environment of the organism that might be responsible
for the perception you hypothesise. But after than, there
are various possibilities. The Runkel sequence that was
linked a while back is one of them. (Bruce Nevin [Bruce
Nevin 2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET] reposted it today.

          You say you want to know whether a particular variable V

in the environment does or does not correspond to a
controlled perception. You do not say whether this
variable lies on a continuum of similar hypotheses such as
V = Xp+Yq , where p and q are
exponents that may take on a range of values your theory
permits, or whether it is of a category that differs
cleanly from other categories that might sensibly be
hypothesized to be “the” controlled variable (the wood
screw versus the metal screw).

          Powers required two preliminary tests as prerequisites to

performing the TCV (or as part of it), so I’ll include
them as steps 1 and 2, in either order. I will call the
hypothesized corresponding controlled quantity in the
environment “V”.

          1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the value V?

          2. Could the subject act deliberately to influence the

value V?

          The answers to these questions may be evident, but if not,

then finding the answers provides two steps of the TCV.
For example, in the case of the speed-curvature relation,
it is not plausible that the subject could perceive the
power relation while acting in a way that produces it, so
it cannot be a controlled variable, and must be a side
effect of controlling something else.

          From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on whether the

question is a Yes-No (YN) question, a Forced-Choice
question (FC) or an unforced choice question (UC). These
three choices apply mainly to cases in which the
hypothesised variable is categorical. If V is continuous,
the TCV becomes an optimization problem. In each
situation, you need to find a way of disturbing the
hypothesized V, but your choice depends on the question.

          It doesn't matter what your question, the TCV will always

have one or all of three problems. The first problem is
that the subject’s reference value may change for the
controlled perception that is the object of your Test,
which has the effect of adding noise into your
measurements; the second is that the subject may stop
actively controlling that perception during your test; and
the third is the contextual dependence problem that is
simplified in the X+Y+Z example below, so you can never be
sure that you have captured all the inputs to the
perceptual function that produces your target perception.

          All three problems are worse in the wild than in the lab,

but there’s really nothing you can do about that. In the
lab you can do what psychologists have been doing for a
century or more – either deliberately increase contextual
variability in a random way or try to keep the context as
stable and as bland as you can. The first increases the
noise, but gives you much more confidence you are right if
you get a clear answer, while the second increases the
likelihood you will get a clear answer, at the cost of
lost generalizability.

          Despite these issues, the TCV can still be useful as a

guide, and as an analogy of what we do when interacting
with other people. So let’s look at the steps that follow
the preliminaries, first for Yes-No ("is this particular
environmental variable perceived by a perception that is
being controlled?).

          3(YN). Find some action that you are sure will influence V

if it is not being controlled. If you can estimate the
magnitude of the effect your influence should have on V in
the absence of control, so much the better. If not, and
you can measure both the magnitude of your influence as
you randomly change it and the magnitudes of the variable
and if possible the supposed influence of the controller
on V, you are still in good shape, because:

          4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly, and the value

of V changes rapidly but then tends to return toward its
previous value, then V is related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled. If it returns toward it
earlier value only after you remove your influence, or
does not return at all, it is not controlled.

          4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V is less than

expected, or if the effect of your influence is larger
when you prevent the supposed controller either from
perceiving the magnitude of V or from influencing it, then
V is an environmental variable related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled.

          4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence magnitude

changes have a high correlation with the changes in the
magnitude of V, and a low correlation with the influence
of the supposed controller, V is not controlled. If your
influence is highly negatively correlated with the
influence of the supposed controller and only slightly
correlated with V, then V is related to a controlled
perception, and is controlled.

          In the YN situation, you don't care whether V actually is

the variable perceived by the perception that is
controlled. To say that V is controlled is simply to say
that its variation under disturbances is countered to some
extent by the actions of the controller. That will be the
case for say, V = X + Y + Z if the controlled perception
is of X + Y and the other variable, Z, changes only
slightly compared to the variation in X and Y. But if
that’s all you want to know, YN is your way to go.

          The categorical (FC) situation is easier. Your question is

which of a defined list of environmental variables
corresponds to a controlled perception. Implicitly you are
asserting that exactly one of the list is correct.

          3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the hypothesized

environmental correlates of controlled perceptions with a
randomly varying influence that may be the same for all or
may be individualized. If you are correct that one and
only one is the environmental variable corresponding to a
controlled perception, then all but the correct one will
vary in a way highly correlated with the changes in your
influence while the correct one will have a low
correlation with your influence.

          In the unforced choice condition (UC), you add the

possibility “none of the above”. If that is the correct
answer, then all of the hypothesized environmental
correlates will have a high correlation with your
influence.

          Finally you have the continuous variants of FC and UFC.

Here, the form of the hypothesised controlled perception
is assumed, but you don’t know what environmental variable
parameter values correspond to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or
something with a ratio between those possibilities? In
this case, you only have to disturb X and Y with
independent random variations of your influence on them,
and find the X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that gives the
lowest correlation between the disturbance and the
environmental variable.

          I don't know if these steps are sufficient for your

purposes, but they might serve as a guide. Ask what it is
you want to achieve, ask how your current state differs
from that, and ask whether the TCV is the right tool to
allow you to achieve what you want – or at least get
closer than you are – and if so, which form of the TCV is
appropriate.

              Martin

[Martin Taylor 2018.05.03.09.01]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-03_07:31:33 ET]

        Martin

Taylor 2018.05.01.13.05 –

Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET –

          > Martin's (2018.04.30.15.05) locution "the

variable perceived by the perception that is controlled"
nicely sidesteps the question whether the variable in the
environment is controlled when the corresponding
perception of it is controlled, but obscures who or what
is doing the perceiving.

          > I dispute that last part "but obscures...". I

think it clarifies.

      Forgive me for being so fussy about words--and we were just

talking about what trouble can result from too much
punctiliousness. What I mean here is that I have difficulty
thinking of a perception as an agent that can perceive. “The
variable perceived by the perception” could be paraphrased
“the variable which the perception perceives”.

Your point is well taken. To my frequent annoyance, I find myself

more and more often in a position where I intended one word to be on
the page and another appears there. I find most of them (I hope)
before clicking “send”, but in this case my memory is that I
intended “as” where “by” appears in the quote. Your following
examples show that I repeated this error, so it was probably a
deeper “mental typo” rather than one that occurred in translating
the reference word in mind to keystrokes. Non-conscious control gone
rogue :slight_smile:

Frailties of old age. I must be more careful in checking what I

write. Thanks for the correction.

Martin

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-03_21:35:41 ET]

Very gracious, Martin. Thank you for accepting my apology. I think no one ever had any real difficulty understanding what you meant.

···

On Thu, May 3, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.05.03.09.01]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-05-03_07:31:33 ET]

        Martin

Taylor 2018.05.01.13.05 –

Bruce Nevin 2018-05-02_11:47:42 ET –

          BN> Martin's (2018.04.30.15.05) locution "the

variable perceived by the perception that is controlled"
nicely sidesteps the question whether the variable in the
environment is controlled when the corresponding
perception of it is controlled, but obscures who or what
is doing the perceiving.

          MMT> I dispute that last part "but obscures...". I

think it clarifies.

      Forgive me for being so fussy about words--and we were just

talking about what trouble can result from too much
punctiliousness. What I mean here is that I have difficulty
thinking of a perception as an agent that can perceive. “The
variable perceived by the perception” could be paraphrased
“the variable which the perception perceives”.

Your point is well taken. To my frequent annoyance, I find myself

more and more often in a position where I intended one word to be on
the page and another appears there. I find most of them (I hope)
before clicking “send”, but in this case my memory is that I
intended “as” where “by” appears in the quote. Your following
examples show that I repeated this error, so it was probably a
deeper “mental typo” rather than one that occurred in translating
the reference word in mind to keystrokes. Non-conscious control gone
rogue :slight_smile:

Frailties of old age. I must be more careful in checking what I

write. Thanks for the correction.

Martin

[Bruce Nevin (20191101.16:30 ET)]

Probably Alex is no longer looking for a clear step-by-step specification of the Test, but on the assumption that the question will arise again I have put Billʽs specification (as rephased by Phil Runkel) on the Discourse forum under Methodlogy at http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-test-for-the-controlled-variable/134.

···

/Bruce

On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:13 AM Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

  On 2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin > wrote:

i’d still appreciate a clear TCV step-by-step.

                    Hey,

Adam and I are trying to take the TCV seriously,
but we would like to have it in a clear logical
step-by-step way so that it is concrete. I know
these has been around there in many papers, but
I wonder if someone could just share the
“cooking recipe” so as to be clear when a
variable can be ruled out as a
controlled variable, and when it can still be
one (although one is never sure it must
be). Thanks, Alex

As with must such questions, I doubt that there is a black-and-white

all-purpose answer to this. So let’s take a PCT-based approach: (1)
ask what you are trying to achieve, (2) Ask how your perception of
the situation differs from how you would like it to be (what you are
trying to achieve), (3) Ask if you have a means to make your
perception closer to its reference value (what you are trying to
achieve). You are starting with question (3), which leads to a
different way of thinking. It is like saying “I have this thing
called a screwdriver . Now what can I do with it?”. The answer would
be “if you have a screw of the right type, you can use it and the
screw to attach one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the right
type’?” “If the things are wood, you want a wood screw, but if they
are metal, you want a metal screw.”

Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can be used for related but

different purposes, and the step-by-step instructions depend on what
you want to achieve. All of them depend on finding a way to disturb
some possibly controlled perception by way of disturbing a variable
in the environment of the organism that might be responsible for the
perception you hypothesise. But after than, there are various
possibilities. The Runkel sequence that was linked a while back is
one of them. (Bruce Nevin [Bruce Nevin 2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET]
reposted it today.

You say you want to know whether a particular variable V in the

environment does or does not correspond to a controlled perception.
You do not say whether this variable lies on a continuum of similar
hypotheses such as V = Xp+Yq , where p and q
are exponents that may take on a range of values your theory
permits, or whether it is of a category that differs cleanly from
other categories that might sensibly be hypothesized to be “the”
controlled variable (the wood screw versus the metal screw).

Powers required two preliminary tests as prerequisites to performing

the TCV (or as part of it), so I’ll include them as steps 1 and 2,
in either order. I will call the hypothesized corresponding
controlled quantity in the environment “V”.

1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the value V?

2. Could the subject act deliberately to influence the value V?



The answers to these questions may be evident, but if not, then

finding the answers provides two steps of the TCV. For example, in
the case of the speed-curvature relation, it is not plausible that
the subject could perceive the power relation while acting in a way
that produces it, so it cannot be a controlled variable, and must be
a side effect of controlling something else.

From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on whether the question is

a Yes-No (YN) question, a Forced-Choice question (FC) or an unforced
choice question (UC). These three choices apply mainly to cases in
which the hypothesised variable is categorical. If V is continuous,
the TCV becomes an optimization problem. In each situation, you need
to find a way of disturbing the hypothesized V, but your choice
depends on the question.

It doesn't matter what your question, the TCV will always have one

or all of three problems. The first problem is that the subject’s
reference value may change for the controlled perception that is the
object of your Test, which has the effect of adding noise into your
measurements; the second is that the subject may stop actively
controlling that perception during your test; and the third is the
contextual dependence problem that is simplified in the X+Y+Z
example below, so you can never be sure that you have captured all
the inputs to the perceptual function that produces your target
perception.

All three problems are worse in the wild than in the lab, but

there’s really nothing you can do about that. In the lab you can do
what psychologists have been doing for a century or more – either
deliberately increase contextual variability in a random way or try
to keep the context as stable and as bland as you can. The first
increases the noise, but gives you much more confidence you are
right if you get a clear answer, while the second increases the
likelihood you will get a clear answer, at the cost of lost
generalizability.

Despite these issues, the TCV can still be useful as a guide, and as

an analogy of what we do when interacting with other people. So
let’s look at the steps that follow the preliminaries, first for
Yes-No ("is this particular environmental variable perceived by a
perception that is being controlled?).

3(YN). Find some action that you are sure will influence V if it is

not being controlled. If you can estimate the magnitude of the
effect your influence should have on V in the absence of control, so
much the better. If not, and you can measure both the magnitude of
your influence as you randomly change it and the magnitudes of the
variable and if possible the supposed influence of the controller on
V, you are still in good shape, because:

4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly, and the value of V

changes rapidly but then tends to return toward its previous value,
then V is related to a controlled perception. It is controlled. If
it returns toward it earlier value only after you remove your
influence, or does not return at all, it is not controlled.

4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V is less than expected,

or if the effect of your influence is larger when you prevent the
supposed controller either from perceiving the magnitude of V or
from influencing it, then V is an environmental variable related to
a controlled perception. It is controlled.

4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence magnitude changes have a

high correlation with the changes in the magnitude of V, and a low
correlation with the influence of the supposed controller, V is not
controlled. If your influence is highly negatively correlated with
the influence of the supposed controller and only slightly
correlated with V, then V is related to a controlled perception, and
is controlled.

In the YN situation, you don't care whether V actually is the

variable perceived by the perception that is controlled. To say that
V is controlled is simply to say that its variation under
disturbances is countered to some extent by the actions of the
controller. That will be the case for say, V = X + Y + Z if the
controlled perception is of X + Y and the other variable, Z, changes
only slightly compared to the variation in X and Y. But if that’s
all you want to know, YN is your way to go.

The categorical (FC) situation is easier. Your question is which of

a defined list of environmental variables corresponds to a
controlled perception. Implicitly you are asserting that exactly one
of the list is correct.

3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the hypothesized environmental

correlates of controlled perceptions with a randomly varying
influence that may be the same for all or may be individualized. If
you are correct that one and only one is the environmental variable
corresponding to a controlled perception, then all but the correct
one will vary in a way highly correlated with the changes in your
influence while the correct one will have a low correlation with
your influence.

In the unforced choice condition (UC), you add the possibility "none

of the above". If that is the correct answer, then all of the
hypothesized environmental correlates will have a high correlation
with your influence.

Finally you have the continuous variants of FC and UFC. Here, the

form of the hypothesised controlled perception is assumed, but you
don’t know what environmental variable parameter values correspond
to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or something with a ratio between those
possibilities? In this case, you only have to disturb X and Y with
independent random variations of your influence on them, and find
the X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that gives the lowest correlation
between the disturbance and the environmental variable.

I don't know if these steps are sufficient for your purposes, but

they might serve as a guide. Ask what it is you want to achieve, ask
how your current state differs from that, and ask whether the TCV is
the right tool to allow you to achieve what you want – or at least
get closer than you are – and if so, which form of the TCV is
appropriate.

Martin

[Martin Taylor 2019.10.01.17.41]

Yes, I read your screed on the discourse forum, and planned to reply

with a few comments, one of which would be to describe some issues I
have always had with the Runkel formulation. One notable issue is
that the Experimenter cannot ever perceive exactly the same variable
as the one controlled by the Subject. If the variable under test is
continuous, the best that can be achieved is a correlation seen by
the Analyst between the variations seen from the Subject’s viewpoint
and from the Experimenter’s viewpoint.

If it is categorical, as in "Which of these is being controlled",

the Experimenter can use the TCV to come up with an unambiguous
choice that his almost certain to be correct, provided the Subject
doesn’t change the choice faster than the Experimenter’s statistical
methods can handle. That becomes a little more difficult if the
question is “Which of these is being controlled, if any.” The
difference between either of these and the situation with a
continuous variable is between choosing and tuning.

It's good to keep the viewpoints straight. I usually describe three,

keeping the Observer and Experimenter as one, because they differ
only in that the Experimenter acts, and that doesn’t imply a
different viewpoint in my book. The others are Subject (or
Controller) and Analyst. The usual problem is mixing up the Analyst
with one of the others. It’s so easy to do without noticing you are
doing it.

Martin
···

On 2019/11/1 4:33 PM, Bruce Nevin
( via csgnet Mailing List) wrote:

bnhpct@gmail.com

      [Bruce Nevin

(20191101.16:30 ET)]

      Probably

Alex is no longer looking for a clear step-by-step
specification of the Test, but on the assumption that the
question will arise again I have put Billʽs specification (as
rephased by Phil Runkel) on the Discourse forum under
Methodlogy at http://discourse.iapct.org/t/the-test-for-the-controlled-variable/134.

/Bruce

      On Wed, May 2, 2018 at 12:13

AM Martin Taylor mmt-csg@mmtaylor.net wrote:

[Martin Taylor 2018.04.30.15.05]

On 2018/04/30 2:29 PM, Alex Gomez-Marin wrote:

              i'd still appreciate a clear TCV

step-by-step.

                            Hey,

Adam and I are trying to take the TCV
seriously, but we would like to have it
in a clear logical step-by-step way so
that it is concrete. I know these has
been around there in many papers, but I
wonder if someone could just share the
“cooking recipe” so as to be clear when
a variable can be ruled out as a
controlled variable, and when it can
still be one (although one is never sure
it must be). Thanks, Alex

        As with must such questions, I doubt that there is a

black-and-white all-purpose answer to this. So let’s take a
PCT-based approach: (1) ask what you are trying to achieve,
(2) Ask how your perception of the situation differs from
how you would like it to be (what you are trying to
achieve), (3) Ask if you have a means to make your
perception closer to its reference value (what you are
trying to achieve). You are starting with question (3),
which leads to a different way of thinking. It is like
saying “I have this thing called a screwdriver . Now what
can I do with it?”. The answer would be “if you have a screw
of the right type, you can use it and the screw to attach
one thing to another.” “But what is ‘the right type’?” “If
the things are wood, you want a wood screw, but if they are
metal, you want a metal screw.”

        Enough analogy. The TCV is a tool that can be used for

related but different purposes, and the step-by-step
instructions depend on what you want to achieve. All of them
depend on finding a way to disturb some possibly controlled
perception by way of disturbing a variable in the
environment of the organism that might be responsible for
the perception you hypothesise. But after than, there are
various possibilities. The Runkel sequence that was linked a
while back is one of them. (Bruce Nevin [Bruce Nevin
2018-05-01_08:20:48 ET] reposted it today.

        You say you want to know whether a particular variable V in

the environment does or does not correspond to a controlled
perception. You do not say whether this variable lies on a
continuum of similar hypotheses such as V = Xp+Yq ,
where p and q are exponents that may take on a range of
values your theory permits, or whether it is of a category
that differs cleanly from other categories that might
sensibly be hypothesized to be “the” controlled variable
(the wood screw versus the metal screw).

        Powers required two preliminary tests as prerequisites to

performing the TCV (or as part of it), so I’ll include them
as steps 1 and 2, in either order. I will call the
hypothesized corresponding controlled quantity in the
environment “V”.

        1. Could the subject plausibly perceive the value V?

        2. Could the subject act deliberately to influence the value

V?

        The answers to these questions may be evident, but if not,

then finding the answers provides two steps of the TCV. For
example, in the case of the speed-curvature relation, it is
not plausible that the subject could perceive the power
relation while acting in a way that produces it, so it
cannot be a controlled variable, and must be a side effect
of controlling something else.

        From here on, the steps of the TCV depend on whether the

question is a Yes-No (YN) question, a Forced-Choice question
(FC) or an unforced choice question (UC). These three
choices apply mainly to cases in which the hypothesised
variable is categorical. If V is continuous, the TCV becomes
an optimization problem. In each situation, you need to find
a way of disturbing the hypothesized V, but your choice
depends on the question.

        It doesn't matter what your question, the TCV will always

have one or all of three problems. The first problem is that
the subject’s reference value may change for the controlled
perception that is the object of your Test, which has the
effect of adding noise into your measurements; the second is
that the subject may stop actively controlling that
perception during your test; and the third is the contextual
dependence problem that is simplified in the X+Y+Z example
below, so you can never be sure that you have captured all
the inputs to the perceptual function that produces your
target perception.

        All three problems are worse in the wild than in the lab,

but there’s really nothing you can do about that. In the lab
you can do what psychologists have been doing for a century
or more – either deliberately increase contextual
variability in a random way or try to keep the context as
stable and as bland as you can. The first increases the
noise, but gives you much more confidence you are right if
you get a clear answer, while the second increases the
likelihood you will get a clear answer, at the cost of lost
generalizability.

        Despite these issues, the TCV can still be useful as a

guide, and as an analogy of what we do when interacting with
other people. So let’s look at the steps that follow the
preliminaries, first for Yes-No ("is this particular
environmental variable perceived by a perception that is
being controlled?).

        3(YN). Find some action that you are sure will influence V

if it is not being controlled. If you can estimate the
magnitude of the effect your influence should have on V in
the absence of control, so much the better. If not, and you
can measure both the magnitude of your influence as you
randomly change it and the magnitudes of the variable and if
possible the supposed influence of the controller on V, you
are still in good shape, because:

        4(YN)a If you apply your influence abruptly, and the value

of V changes rapidly but then tends to return toward its
previous value, then V is related to a controlled
perception. It is controlled. If it returns toward it
earlier value only after you remove your influence, or does
not return at all, it is not controlled.

        4(YN)b If the effect of your influence on V is less than

expected, or if the effect of your influence is larger when
you prevent the supposed controller either from perceiving
the magnitude of V or from influencing it, then V is an
environmental variable related to a controlled perception.
It is controlled.

        4(YN)c If your randomly varying influence magnitude changes

have a high correlation with the changes in the magnitude of
V, and a low correlation with the influence of the supposed
controller, V is not controlled. If your influence is highly
negatively correlated with the influence of the supposed
controller and only slightly correlated with V, then V is
related to a controlled perception, and is controlled.

        In the YN situation, you don't care whether V actually is

the variable perceived by the perception that is controlled.
To say that V is controlled is simply to say that its
variation under disturbances is countered to some extent by
the actions of the controller. That will be the case for
say, V = X + Y + Z if the controlled perception is of X + Y
and the other variable, Z, changes only slightly compared to
the variation in X and Y. But if that’s all you want to
know, YN is your way to go.

        The categorical (FC) situation is easier. Your question is

which of a defined list of environmental variables
corresponds to a controlled perception. Implicitly you are
asserting that exactly one of the list is correct.

        3(FC) Arrange to disturb all of the hypothesized

environmental correlates of controlled perceptions with a
randomly varying influence that may be the same for all or
may be individualized. If you are correct that one and only
one is the environmental variable corresponding to a
controlled perception, then all but the correct one will
vary in a way highly correlated with the changes in your
influence while the correct one will have a low correlation
with your influence.

        In the unforced choice condition (UC), you add the

possibility “none of the above”. If that is the correct
answer, then all of the hypothesized environmental
correlates will have a high correlation with your influence.

        Finally you have the continuous variants of FC and UFC.

Here, the form of the hypothesised controlled perception is
assumed, but you don’t know what environmental variable
parameter values correspond to it. Is it X+Y, 1.2X+0.8Y or
something with a ratio between those possibilities? In this
case, you only have to disturb X and Y with independent
random variations of your influence on them, and find the
X/Y ratio of disturbance scale that gives the lowest
correlation between the disturbance and the environmental
variable.

        I don't know if these steps are sufficient for your

purposes, but they might serve as a guide. Ask what it is
you want to achieve, ask how your current state differs from
that, and ask whether the TCV is the right tool to allow you
to achieve what you want – or at least get closer than you
are – and if so, which form of the TCV is appropriate.

        Martin