I came across the quote below on another list and thought it was relevant to CSG.
BEGIN QUOTE...
"The period of transition between established paradigms is neither smooth nor
rapid. Kuhn quotes Max Planck's observation (SSR, p. 151) that sometimes:
" '...a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and
making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die,
and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.'
"According to Kuhn, the scientific paradigms preceding and succeeding a
paradigm shift are so different that their theories are not comparable
(incommensurable). The paradigm shift does not merely involve the revision or
transformation of an individual theory, it changes the way terminology is
defined, how the scientists in that field view their subject, and, perhaps
most significantly, what questions are regarded as valid, and what rules are
used to determine the truth of a particular theory. Kuhn observes that they
are incommensurable � literally, lacking comparability, untranslataable. The
new theories were not, as the scientists had previously thought, just
extensions of old theories, but were radically new world views. Such
incommensurability exists not just before and after a paradigm shift, but in
the periods in between conflicting paradigms. It is simply not possible,
according to Kuhn, to construct an impartial language that can be used to
perform a neutral comparison between conflicting paradigms, because the very
terms used are integral to the respective paradigms, and therefore have
different connotations in each paradigm. The advocates of mutually exclusive
paradigms are in an invidious position: 'Though each may hope to convert the
other to his way of seeing science and its problems, neither may hope to
prove his case. The competition between paradigms is not the sort of battle
that can be resolved by proof.' (SSR, p. 148).
Hi, Fred. Beautiful quote. Can you tell where it is from, or who?
And have you looked at the back of the dust jacket of B:CP lately?
Ted
···
-----Original Message-----
From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet)
[mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU] On Behalf Of nickols@att.net
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 6:59 AM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU
Subject: A Relevant Quote
[From Fred Nickols (07.09.2008.0857 ET)]
I came across the quote below on another list and thought it was relevant to
CSG.
BEGIN QUOTE...
"The period of transition between established paradigms is neither smooth
nor
rapid. Kuhn quotes Max Planck's observation (SSR, p. 151) that sometimes:
" '...a new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents
and
making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die,
and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.'
"According to Kuhn, the scientific paradigms preceding and succeeding a
paradigm shift are so different that their theories are not comparable
(incommensurable). The paradigm shift does not merely involve the revision
or
transformation of an individual theory, it changes the way terminology is
defined, how the scientists in that field view their subject, and, perhaps
most significantly, what questions are regarded as valid, and what rules are
used to determine the truth of a particular theory. Kuhn observes that they
are incommensurable - literally, lacking comparability, untranslatable. The
new theories were not, as the scientists had previously thought, just
extensions of old theories, but were radically new world views. Such
incommensurability exists not just before and after a paradigm shift, but in
the periods in between conflicting paradigms. It is simply not possible,
according to Kuhn, to construct an impartial language that can be used to
perform a neutral comparison between conflicting paradigms, because the very
terms used are integral to the respective paradigms, and therefore have
different connotations in each paradigm. The advocates of mutually exclusive
paradigms are in an invidious position: 'Though each may hope to convert the
other to his way of seeing science and its problems, neither may hope to
prove his case. The competition between paradigms is not the sort of battle
that can be resolved by proof.' (SSR, p. 148).
Hi, Fred. Beautiful quote. Can you tell where it is from, or who?
And have you looked at the back of the dust jacket of B:CP lately?
Ted
I have been trying to publish a paper about the scientific revolution
that is PCT (with the exceptionally clever title "You say you had a
revolution", a reference not only to John Lennon's wonderful song but
also to the "Cognitive Revolution" in psychology, a non-revolution --
because it is still based on a open-loop causal model of behavior --
that was one of the many "paradigm shifts" that were so popular after
the publication of Kuhn's "Structure of Scientific Revolutions"). I
have had no success, so far (I'm waiting for the negative reviewers to
die off), but I do include Kuhn's quote from the dust jacket in that
paper.
If the paper doesn't get published after a couple more tries (I think
it belongs in _American Psychologist_ but so far most of the reviewers
seem to agree that it belongs in the wastebasket;-)) I'll post it at
my MindReading.com site.
Best
Rick
···
On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 8:38 AM, Ted Cloak <tcloak@unm.edu> wrote:
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com
The link and the quote were posted to the System Dynamics list, another area where closed-loop feedback systems don't seem to be getting the respect and recognition they'd like.
As for the dust jacket of B:CP, that must be the second edition, which I don't have as yet.
···
--
Regards,
Fred Nickols
Managing Partner
Distance Consulting, LLC
nickols@att.net
www.nickols.us
"Assistance at A Distance"
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ted Cloak <tcloak@UNM.EDU>
Hi, Fred. Beautiful quote. Can you tell where it is from, or who?
And have you looked at the back of the dust jacket of B:CP lately?