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CSGnet Archive CSG2017
1

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.13 17.00)]

  I refer you to the paper on p170 of this large document,

“Simulation of Human Balance Control Using an Inverted,Pendulum
Model,”

dc-pdf_20.png

pr-logo8.png

···



LM2017
Proceedings_Springer.pdf

  and offer for your delectation (and despair) the comments in the

abstract,

    "It is probable that there are many concurrent control loops

occurring in the central nervous
system" and,

    "no models of how these controllers might operate within the

nervous system have yet been developed."

  The paper is a very familiar read, particularly the "neural

arithmetic operators"!

  Below is my email to the authors.

  Regards,

  Rupert

  -------- Forwarded Message --------

Hello,

Subject:
Simulation of Human Balance Control Using an
Inverted,Pendulum Model
Date:
Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:39:30 +0100

    I read your paper in Biomimetic and Biohybrid Systems with

great interest, as it directly overlaps with my own area of
research and development.

    I have good news with respect to your comment, "no models of

how these controllers might operate within the nervous system
have yet been developed."

    Actually there is a very detailed model of the functional

control architecture of the nervous system, which you can see in
the book “Behavior: The Control Of Perception”
().

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Perception-William-T-Powers/dp/0964712172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502635537&sr=8-1&keywords=behavior+the+control+of+perception
It concerns a pretty comprehensive theory of how the nervous
system is organised in terms of the type of controllers you are
trying to model, including for balance. It also discusses neural
operators similar to those in your paper. The balance model has
been outlined in
,
which I have implemented in a real robot,

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266496211_A_simple_and_robust_hierarchical_control_system_for_a_walking_robothttps://youtu.be/FCPDEeosCPU
I have also implemented the joint angle control concept for
robot arms

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsBzySYXLSUPVnRLYwGQ970fpupRuYKXX&spfreload=10
The approach for robotics is outlined in my recent paper “A
General Architecture for Robotics Systems: A Perception-Based
Approach to Artificial Life,” .

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/ARTL_a_00229
In fact there is an active cross-disciplinary field of
research focussed on these matters and the underlying theory.
There is a brief overview on my website at and you can see a lot more at .

http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2014/06/18/perceptual-robots-philosophy/http://www.pctweb.org/
I think you will find this approach interesting and it should
simplify your model both conceptually and in terms of
implementation.

–
Regards,
Dr Rupert Young

www.perceptualrobots.com
Twitter LinkedIn
YouTube

+44 7795 480387

2

[Martin Taylor 2017.08.13.13.33]

You might also have mentioned the inverted pendulum model in LCS

III, p164ff. The text start by mentioning that the model was first
shown in a CSG meeting in Germany in 1994.

Martin

dc-pdf_20.png

pr-logo8.png

···



LM2017
Proceedings_Springer.pdf

    and offer for your delectation (and despair) the comments in the

abstract,
“It is probable that there are many concurrent control loops
occurring in the central nervous
system” and,

      "no models of how these controllers might operate within the

nervous system have yet been developed."

    The paper is a very familiar read, particularly the "neural

arithmetic operators"!

    Below is my email to the authors.

    Regards,

    Rupert

    -------- Forwarded Message --------

Hello,

Subject:
Simulation of Human Balance Control Using an
Inverted,Pendulum Model
Date:
Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:39:30 +0100

      I read your paper in Biomimetic and Biohybrid Systems with

great interest, as it directly overlaps with my own area of
research and development.

      I have good news with respect to your comment, "no models of

how these controllers might operate within the nervous system
have yet been developed."

      Actually there is a very detailed model of the functional

control architecture of the nervous system, which you can see
in the book “Behavior: The Control Of Perception” ().

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Perception-William-T-Powers/dp/0964712172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502635537&sr=8-1&keywords=behavior+the+control+of+perception
It concerns a pretty comprehensive theory of how the nervous
system is organised in terms of the type of controllers you
are trying to model, including for balance. It also discusses
neural operators similar to those in your paper. The balance
model has been outlined in ,
which I have implemented in a real robot,

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266496211_A_simple_and_robust_hierarchical_control_system_for_a_walking_robothttps://youtu.be/FCPDEeosCPU
I have also implemented the joint angle control concept for
robot arms

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsBzySYXLSUPVnRLYwGQ970fpupRuYKXX&spfreload=10
The approach for robotics is outlined in my recent paper “A
General Architecture for Robotics Systems: A Perception-Based
Approach to Artificial Life,” .

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/ARTL_a_00229
In fact there is an active cross-disciplinary field of
research focussed on these matters and the underlying theory.
There is a brief overview on my website at and you can see a lot more at .

http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2014/06/18/perceptual-robots-philosophy/http://www.pctweb.org/
I think you will find this approach interesting and it should
simplify your model both conceptually and in terms of
implementation.

–
Regards,
Dr Rupert Young

www.perceptualrobots.com
Twitter
LinkedIn
YouTube

+44 7795 480387

3

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.15 10.15)]

(Martin Taylor 2017.08.13.13.33]

You might also have mentioned the inverted pendulum model in LCS III, p164ff. The text start by mentioning that the model was first shown in a CSG meeting in Germany in 1994.

Ah yes, I had actually intended to mention LCSIII, but somehow it fell out of my memory. Let's see if they reply and I'll mention it then.

Regards,
Rupert

4

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.19 17.00)]

Fyi, I got this response from the authors.

Hello Dr. Rupert Young,

      This work looks very interesting, thank you for bringing it

to our attention. We will be sure to look at the papers and
consider this research closely in regards to our future work.

Best,

Alex, Wade, Nick, and Roger

dc-pdf_20.png

pr-logo8.png

···



LM2017
Proceedings_Springer.pdf

      and offer for your delectation (and despair) the comments in

the abstract,
“It is probable that there are many concurrent control
loops occurring in the central nervous
system” and,

        "no models of how these controllers might operate within

the nervous system have yet been developed."

      The paper is a very familiar read, particularly the "neural

arithmetic operators"!

      Below is my email to the authors.

      Regards,

      Rupert

      -------- Forwarded Message --------

Hello,

Subject:
Simulation of Human Balance Control Using an
Inverted,Pendulum Model
Date:
Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:39:30 +0100

        I read your paper in Biomimetic and Biohybrid Systems with

great interest, as it directly overlaps with my own area of
research and development.

        I have good news with respect to your comment, "no models

of how these controllers might operate within the nervous
system have yet been developed."

        Actually there is a very detailed model of the functional

control architecture of the nervous system, which you can
see in the book “Behavior: The Control Of Perception” ().

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Perception-William-T-Powers/dp/0964712172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502635537&sr=8-1&keywords=behavior+the+control+of+perception
It concerns a pretty comprehensive theory of how the
nervous system is organised in terms of the type of
controllers you are trying to model, including for balance.
It also discusses neural operators similar to those in your
paper. The balance model has been outlined in ,
which I have implemented in a real robot,

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266496211_A_simple_and_robust_hierarchical_control_system_for_a_walking_robothttps://youtu.be/FCPDEeosCPU
I have also implemented the joint angle control concept for
robot arms

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsBzySYXLSUPVnRLYwGQ970fpupRuYKXX&spfreload=10
The approach for robotics is outlined in my recent paper “A
General Architecture for Robotics Systems: A
Perception-Based Approach to Artificial Life,” .

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/ARTL_a_00229
In fact there is an active cross-disciplinary field of
research focussed on these matters and the underlying
theory. There is a brief overview on my website at and you can see a lot more at .

http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2014/06/18/perceptual-robots-philosophy/http://www.pctweb.org/
I think you will find this approach interesting and it
should simplify your model both conceptually and in terms of
implementation.

–
Regards,
Dr Rupert Young

www.perceptualrobots.com
Twitter
LinkedIn
YouTube

+44 7795 480387

5

A good start - I would hold them to it!

···



<dc-pdf_20.png>

LM2017
Proceedings_Springer.pdf

      and offer for your delectation (and despair) the comments in

the abstract,
“It is probable that there are many concurrent control
loops occurring in the central nervous
system” and,

        "no models of how these controllers might operate within

the nervous system have yet been developed."

      The paper is a very familiar read, particularly the "neural

arithmetic operators"!

      Below is my email to the authors.

      Regards,

      Rupert

      -------- Forwarded Message --------

Hello,

Subject:
Simulation of Human Balance Control Using an
Inverted,Pendulum Model
Date:
Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:39:30 +0100

        I read your paper in Biomimetic and Biohybrid Systems with

great interest, as it directly overlaps with my own area of
research and development.

        I have good news with respect to your comment, "no models

of how these controllers might operate within the nervous
system have yet been developed."

        Actually there is a very detailed model of the functional

control architecture of the nervous system, which you can
see in the book “Behavior: The Control Of Perception” ().

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Perception-William-T-Powers/dp/0964712172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502635537&sr=8-1&keywords=behavior+the+control+of+perception
It concerns a pretty comprehensive theory of how the
nervous system is organised in terms of the type of
controllers you are trying to model, including for balance.
It also discusses neural operators similar to those in your
paper. The balance model has been outlined in ,
which I have implemented in a real robot,

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266496211_A_simple_and_robust_hierarchical_control_system_for_a_walking_robothttps://youtu.be/FCPDEeosCPU
I have also implemented the joint angle control concept for
robot arms

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsBzySYXLSUPVnRLYwGQ970fpupRuYKXX&spfreload=10
The approach for robotics is outlined in my recent paper “A
General Architecture for Robotics Systems: A
Perception-Based Approach to Artificial Life,” .

http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/ARTL_a_00229
In fact there is an active cross-disciplinary field of
research focussed on these matters and the underlying
theory. There is a brief overview on my website at and you can see a lot more at .

http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2014/06/18/perceptual-robots-philosophy/http://www.pctweb.org/
I think you will find this approach interesting and it
should simplify your model both conceptually and in terms of
implementation.

–
Regards,
Dr Rupert Young

<pgngjalclhaogijn.png>

www.perceptualrobots.com
Twitter
LinkedIn
YouTube

+44 7795 480387

6

Hi,

Sorry, thought I’d chip in on this one!

I assume they intended to say “on a neuron by neuron level” to have it not conflict with PCT. Even then, I’m sure there must be existing attempts at neuronal models for the inverted pendulum, even if they’re not PD controllers.

I can say that not just with PCT, there are lots of possible conflicts here that this may have research wise. I don’t think it’s just PCT they’ve missed off as an alternative!

Also, I noticed a few errors in the paper. Didn’t seem that rigorously reviewed.

Ben

···

On 20 Aug 2017 7:21 am, “Warren Mansell” wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

A good start - I would hold them to it!

On 19 Aug 2017, at 18:01, Rupert Young rupert@perceptualrobots.com wrote:

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.19 17.00)]

Fyi, I got this response from the authors.

Hello Dr. Rupert Young,

      This work looks very interesting, thank you for bringing it

to our attention. We will be sure to look at the papers and
consider this research closely in regards to our future work.

Best,

Alex, Wade, Nick, and Roger

[From Rupert Young (2017.08.13 17.00)]

      I refer you to the paper on p170 of this large document,

“Simulation of Human Balance Control Using an
Inverted,Pendulum Model,”



<dc-pdf_20.png>

LM2017
Proceedings_Springer.pdf

      and offer for your delectation (and despair) the comments in

the abstract,
“It is probable that there are many concurrent control
loops occurring in the central nervous
system” and,

        "no models of how these controllers might operate within

the nervous system have yet been developed."

      The paper is a very familiar read, particularly the "neural

arithmetic operators"!

      Below is my email to the authors.



      Regards,

      Rupert







      -------- Forwarded Message --------

Subject:
Simulation of Human Balance Control Using an
Inverted,Pendulum Model
Date:
Sun, 13 Aug 2017 16:39:30 +0100

      Hello,
        I read your paper in Biomimetic and Biohybrid Systems with

great interest, as it directly overlaps with my own area of
research and development.

        I have good news with respect to your comment, "no models

of how these controllers might operate within the nervous
system have yet been developed."

        Actually there is a very detailed model of the functional

control architecture of the nervous system, which you can
see in the book “Behavior: The Control Of Perception” (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behavior-Perception-William-T-Powers/dp/0964712172/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1502635537&sr=8-1&keywords=behavior+the+control+of+perception).

        It concerns a pretty comprehensive theory of how the

nervous system is organised in terms of the type of
controllers you are trying to model, including for balance.
It also discusses neural operators similar to those in your
paper. The balance model has been outlined in https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266496211_A_simple_and_robust_hierarchical_control_system_for_a_walking_robot ,
which I have implemented in a real robot, https://youtu.be/FCPDEeosCPU

        I have also implemented the joint angle control concept for

robot arms https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsBzySYXLSUPVnRLYwGQ970fpupRuYKXX&spfreload=10

        The approach for robotics is outlined in my recent paper "A

General Architecture for Robotics Systems: A
Perception-Based Approach to Artificial Life," http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/ARTL_a_00229 .

        In fact there is an active cross-disciplinary field of

research focussed on these matters and the underlying
theory. There is a brief overview on my website at http://www.perceptualrobots.com/2014/06/18/perceptual-robots-philosophy/
and you can see a lot more at http://www.pctweb.org/.

        I think you will find this approach interesting and it

should simplify your model both conceptually and in terms of
implementation.

–
Regards,
Dr Rupert Young

<pgngjalclhaogijn.png>

www.perceptualrobots.com
Twitter
LinkedIn
YouTube

+44 7795 480387