Here are a few concepts from control theory which I have not seen transfered to PCT and that would fit quite well.
Gain and phase margins:
<https://youtu.be/ThoA4amCAX4>https://youtu.be/ThoA4amCAX4
Stability:
<https://youtu.be/uqjKG32AkC4>https://youtu.be/uqjKG32AkC4
And sensitivity:
<https://youtu.be/BAWdZvF1O40>https://youtu.be/BAWdZvF1O40
Among others, you can check out the whole classical control theory lectures on the YouTube channel of these videos.
[Rick Marken 2018-11-13_11:45:49]
NK: Here are a few concepts from control theory which I have not seen transfered to PCT and that would fit quite well.
RM: These are great tutorials. But I don't think you need to transfer them to PCT; they are already an intrinsic part of PCT because PCT IS control theory. We just don't use these concepts much because PCT is dealing with systems that already control well, which means that their gain, phase margins and sensitivity are such that they produce stable (good) control. What is unique about PCT relative to other applications of control theory to behavior (and there is a lot of research based on the non-PCT application of control theory to behavior) is that PCT emphasizes the fact that behavior is organized around the control of perceptual variables. So in order to understand the (stable) controlling done by living control systems you have to determine what perceptual variables they are controlling. Â
BestÂ
Rick
 >
Gain and phase margins:
<https://youtu.be/ThoA4amCAX4>https://youtu.be/ThoA4amCAX4
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 3:48 AM "Nicolas M. Kirchberger" <<mailto:csgnet@lists.illinois.edu>csgnet@lists.illinois.edu> wrote:
Stability:
<https://youtu.be/uqjKG32AkC4>> https://youtu.be/uqjKG32AkC4
And sensitivity:
<https://youtu.be/BAWdZvF1O40>> https://youtu.be/BAWdZvF1O40
Among others, you can check out the whole classical control theory lectures on the YouTube channel of these videos.
--
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery
[Rick Marken 2018-11-13_16:43:17]
[Nicolas M Kirchberger 2018-11-13_16:55]
NM: Yes, although I think the phase margin concept for instance can clarify the time dimension of a perceptual variable.Â
 RM: I think it would be great if you would test that yourself. How about building a model that controls a percpetual variable that is defined over time, such as a temporal sequence or program (as in my demo of control of higher level perceptions: <https://www.mindreadings.com/ControlDemo/ProgramControl.html>https://www.mindreadings.com/ControlDemo/ProgramControl.html\). Indeed, if you could develop a model of the controlling done in that demo I think it would be a major contribution to PCT science and, for that matter, to control theory per se.Â
BestÂ
Rick
Let’s  say hunger, if one doesn’t eat within a given delay after the hunger signal, things can go wrong, same thing for most perceptual variables which have phase margins.
I think the « phase margin » of hunger for instance may not be given by a reference variable but by natural constraints upon the control system.
Similarly, people may have different gain margins depending on the health of their system that may explain things such as the LD50 (lethal dose that kills 50% of the sample) of poisons. There is probably no reference level that tell the living control system to die after some poison level Shaw been reached.
Le 13 nov. 2018 14:50 -0500, Richard Marken <<mailto:csgnet@lists.illinois.edu>csgnet@lists.illinois.edu>, a écrit :
[Rick Marken 2018-11-13_11:45:49]
NK: Here are a few concepts from control theory which I have not seen transfered to PCT and that would fit quite well.
RM: These are great tutorials. But I don't think you need to transfer them to PCT; they are already an intrinsic part of PCT because PCT IS control theory. We just don't use these concepts much because PCT is dealing with systems that already control well, which means that their gain, phase margins and sensitivity are such that they produce stable (good) control. What is unique about PCT relative to other applications of control theory to behavior (and there is a lot of research based on the non-PCT application of control theory to behavior) is that PCT emphasizes the fact that behavior is organized around the control of perceptual variables. So in order to understand the (stable) controlling done by living control systems you have to determine what perceptual variables they are controlling. Â
BestÂ
Rick
 >>>
Gain and phase margins:
<https://youtu.be/ThoA4amCAX4>https://youtu.be/ThoA4amCAX4
Stability:
<https://youtu.be/uqjKG32AkC4>>>> https://youtu.be/uqjKG32AkC4
And sensitivity:
<https://youtu.be/BAWdZvF1O40>>>> https://youtu.be/BAWdZvF1O40
Among others, you can check out the whole classical control theory lectures on the YouTube channel of these videos.
--
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 3:48 AM "Nicolas M. Kirchberger" <<mailto:csgnet@lists.illinois.edu>csgnet@lists.illinois.edu> wrote:
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery
--
Richard S. MarkenÂ
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery
Rick
From: Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2018 8:49 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Areas to possibly extends PCT
[Rick Marken 2018-11-13_11:45:49]
On Tue, Nov 13, 2018 at 3:48 AM “Nicolas M. Kirchberger” csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:
NK: Here are a few concepts from control theory which I have not seen transfered to PCT and that would fit quite well.
RM: These are great tutorials. But I don’t think you need to transfer them to PCT; they are already an intrinsic part of PCT because PCT IS control theory. We just don’t use these concepts much because PCT is dealing with systems that already control well, which means that their gain, phase margins and sensitivity are such that they produce stable (good) control. What is unique about PCT relative to other applications of control theory to behavior (and there is a lot of research based on the non-PCT application of control theory to behavior) is that PCT emphasizes the fact that behavior is organized around the control of perceptual variables. So in order to understand the (stable) controlling done by living control systems you have to determine what perceptual variables they are controlling.
HB : So you can understand PCT if you want to. On some level. Why not continue in PCT style ?
Boris
Best
Rick
Gain and phase margins:
Stability:
And sensitivity:
Among others, you can check out the whole classical control theory lectures on the YouTube channel of these videos.
–
Richard S. Marken
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.”
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery