Artificial Intelligence

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

···

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.21.1245 ET)]

I’m not sure I understand, Philip. PCT won’t help who?

Fred Nickols

···

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:39 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

That’s three non-sequiturs in a row!!

Warren

···

On 21 Mar 2018, at 16:38, PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu wrote:

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

Now we have all 3 dimensions!

···

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

That’s three non-sequiturs in a row!!

Warren

On 21 Mar 2018, at 16:38, PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu wrote:

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

Who do you think PCT will help?

···

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:46 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.21.1245 ET)]

I’m not sure I understand, Philip. PCT won’t help who?

Fred Nickols

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:39 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

[Martin Taylor 2018.03.21.17.51]

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

I would be very ambivalent about that, because I could argue both sides of the issue. On the one hand, I have long thought (and said) that an issue with neural networks (which I first worked with in 1963) is exactly what is always brought up, that the builders can't see what the network is doing. What it is doing is entirely passive, except in situations like the Go expert, which learned by playing against a copy of itself, creating an effective feedback loop with just one controlled perceptual variable that one might call "proximity to a win". All its internal processes are hidden.

For that problem, PCT could be very helpful, since one can go into it in just about every part of the network and see what is the perception being controlled locally. The nature of the neural network on the perceptual side of a PCT hierarchy is the kind of neural network that Deep Mind and such systems use, but the PCT network "rewards" (by allowing effective control) at many levels rather than just one.

The problem is that there has to be something for all of those units to perceive and control. When one is talking about building a control hierarchy in an organism, the organism starts with a relatively small number of building blocks and then adds to them according to the perceptual structure it finds controllable in the environment in which it behaves. There is no such controllable environment for the recognizer of faces to manipulate to see whether control works or not.

Now, it is possible, even plausible, that the system could learn to create as well as recognize images or sounds (as existing systems already do, but in a different way), and in some way do as the Go player did, play against itself in an environment of variations of the kinds of thing it is supposed to recognize. I mean that network A might play a game of telling network B (and C, D, ... to make a network of game dyads) how like something in the database is B's latest creation, and vice versa. The database of photographs would be the "real reality" for them both, and each would be controlling for the other to say "I know what you just produced" using either a language they jointly develop or sets of labels attached to the images and sounds in the database. That, of course is wild speculation, but it is a way I think PCT could address the same problem and produce a result that humans could interpret.

When one talks about intelligent robots, the situation is different. The robots can act and must learn not only how to control perceptions relevant to their purposes, but also to discover those purposes. The great advantage an organic baby has is that initially it is powerless to destroy anything but the most accessible and fragile parts of its environment. A robot learning to control perceptions while possessing its mature mechanical strength could cause great damage failing to control well, as though a five-year-old were give full control of a car.

There is, therefore a conflict between allowing it to learn in an environment as complex as a million images while actually manipulating those millions of possibly controllable perceptions. I'm not sure how to develop an autonomous robot without ensuring its physical capabilities lag its control structure development -- rather like learning to drive in a simulator so you don't kill anyone before you have at least some idea of what might happen on the road an which bits of control interface do what to the motion of the car.

It's an interesting question, and one in which I think PCT must in some way be able to offer approaches that are better than the passive learning approach usually taken. But I think someone with access to big computers has to try it, even on a small scale, before approaching people who want to build autonomous cars and identify faces in a crowd.

Martin

···

On 2018/03/21 10:37 AM, Alison Powers wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.23.1302 ET)]

To answer your question, Philip, I think PCT has already helped me. I’m a better performance analyst thanks to PCT. I think PCT could help anyone who is interested in better understanding human behavior and dealing with behavior/performance-related problems in the workplace.

Fred Nickols

···

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:15 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

Who do you think PCT will help?

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:46 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.21.1245 ET)]

I’m not sure I understand, Philip. PCT won’t help who?

Fred Nickols

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:39 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

PCT helped me realize in my 20’s that events in life weren’t controlling me and that my life wasn’t beyond my control (bad marriage) and that I had the option of perceiving my life differently. Understanding that it was up to me to decide to end my marriage and to start taking the necessary action to do things to change the life I was living so it better matched what I wanted it to be, to me, was due to my understanding that I control my own perception. I was married to someone who was very controlling and was at the tail end of a generation of women who were expected to submit to their spouse.

I think young people today are somewhat under the spell of the technological world they have been swept into. I think PCT could help them to recover a life that is more in touch with the world and each other.

···

On Mar 23, 2018 11:04 AM, “Fred Nickols” fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.23.1302 ET)]

To answer your question, Philip, I think PCT has already helped me. I’m a better performance analyst thanks to PCT. I think PCT could help anyone who is interested in better understanding human behavior and dealing with behavior/performance-related problems in the workplace.

Fred Nickols

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:15 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

Who do you think PCT will help?

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:46 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.21.1245 ET)]

I’m not sure I understand, Philip. PCT won’t help who?

Fred Nickols

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:39 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says

Çheers Alison,

after I read your attitude to PCT and very good social understanding of it, I really don’t understand why so much conflicts and funny situations on CSGnet which were mentioned by Alex.

If you and Barb beleive that PCT is about controlling perception, than there is no need to protect Ricks’ RCT mantra that PCT is about »Control of behavior«. I noticed your good PCT common sense thinking in our conversations and I also noticed Barbs good PCT common sense thinking in »tennis game case« and »ship-dogs case« where discussion was going on between Barb, Rick and me. It was clear that Rick was wrong and Barb was right. But I got the feeling that she was afraid of criticizing Rick. Is he somehow »controlling« her ?

You described clearly your »life underdstanding« of PCT and as far as I can see your description is very good. I also agree that husbands shouldn’t be so »controlling«. And vica verse. Attempts of control in spouses abviously cause troubles and possible suffering. But as you described it’s obvious that husbands can’t control women if they don’t want to be controlled. It goes also in other direction. And in direction of relationship between parents and children. As you wrote :

AP :…… it was up to me to decide to end my marriage and to start taking the necessary action to do things to change the life I was living so it better matched what I wanted it to be, to me, was due to my understanding that I control my own perception.

HB : I think it’s true as you wrote, we live our lives in accordance to what we want (references inside organims) not in accordance with what we »control in outer environment« or in accordance with events in outer environment that could somehow control us including other people. »Control« in outer environment is not reference and of course not »stimulus« for our behavior.

I’m sorry for your experience with »controling marriage«. But such thinking is still very common way of what is happening in spouses arround the World. And I’m sure that PCT could help understand where is the problem.I think that Glassers’ RT is example of good PCT practice.

But I also think that there is a long way for humanity to overcome problems with »control of other people«. Usually wars are based on such thinkng.

Rick somehow managed with my help to overcome thinking that »people control people all the time« to thinking that »people try to control people« what was my way of thinking from the moment I met PCT. We can’t control other pepople if they don’t want to be »ccontrolled«. We are always the one that choose our way of controlling perception of any behavior, Other people can help us in our own control, or can limit us or even make that we can’t control nay more. But they can’t overtake control which is genetically determined.

AP : I think young people today are somewhat under the spell of the technological world they have been swept into. I think PCT could help them to recover a life that is more in touch with the world and each other.

HB : PCT could also help understand why »control of children« in schools is impossible and adjust government regulation to that fact. Changed way of thinking can probably help young people understand what is really about in their lives and avoid teacher or parents »control« of their lives. Schools should establish communication with children and avoid »transfer of knowledge from teacher to students«. Beside that »ordering« children how to think and live is not natural. PCT help realize that. . I’ll always remember song from Pink Floyd »We don’t need no education, we don’t need no thought control«…¦.

Children shouldn’t be what teacher and parents want them to be, but they should start with their responsability for their life destiny as soon as possible. So they should be »directed« to thinking that they should be in life what they want to be. Schools should help them in seeking their potentials and help them in developing their own potentials »in touch with each other«. Potentials in every child are very individual. All children are not good in every subject but they are sure good in some subjects which they are interested in. There are many private schools on the World which succesfully carry out such a practice with good results. One is Summerhill.

I personally think that you Alison should continue with such a good thinking and persuading people what PCT is really about. And don’t be afraid of giving critics to anybody on CSGnet.

Best,

Boris

···

From: Alison Powers [mailto:controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2018 3:32 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: RE: Artificial Intelligence

PCT helped me realize in my 20’s that events in life weren’t controlling me and that my life wasn’t beyond my control (bad marriage) and that I had the option of perceiving my life differently. Understanding that it was up to me to decide to end my marriage and to start taking the necessary action to do things to change the life I was living so it better matched what I wanted it to be, to me, was due to my understanding that I control my own perception. I was married to someone who was very controlling and was at the tail end of a generation of women who were expected to submit to their spouse.

I think young people today are somewhat under the spell of the technological world they have been swept into. I think PCT could help them to recover a life that is more in touch with the world and each other.

On Mar 23, 2018 11:04 AM, “Fred Nickols” fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.23.1302 ET)]

To answer your question, Philip, I think PCT has already helped me. I’m a better performance analyst thanks to PCT. I think PCT could help anyone who is interested in better understanding human behavior and dealing with behavior/performance-related problems in the workplace.

Fred Nickols

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:15 PM
To: csgnet csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

Who do you think PCT will help?

On Wed, Mar 21, 2018 at 9:46 AM, Fred Nickols fred@nickols.us wrote:

[From Fred Nickols (2018.03.21.1245 ET)]

I’m not sure I understand, Philip. PCT won’t help who?

Fred Nickols

From: PHILIP JERAIR YERANOSIAN pyeranos@ucla.edu
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2018 12:39 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: Artificial Intelligence

PCT is still a work in progress that won’t help. These people don’t need to study PCT.

On Wednesday, March 21, 2018, Alison Powers controlsystemsgroupconference@gmail.com wrote:

AP: Here is a recent interview by Terry Gross, on her NPR news show Fresh Air, with Cade Metz. As was listening to it, I thought, someone needs to let him know about PCT so he will hopefully integrate it into his writing. Anyone interested?

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593863645/robots-are-now-creating-new-robots-tech-reporter-says