Awareness of Disturbance & Its Source

The "disturbing disturbances" thread long ago moved away from my simple
inquiry as to the definition of disturbance into a very technical debate,
which I can almost follow but not quite. It does, however, contain a
sub-thread in terms of which I'd like to pose another question.

Suppose I'm controlling for a perception of myself at work as "respected,
valued, and influential." Suppose that I receive signals from my world
indicating that I'm doing okay on that score. (Or if you prefer, "my
perceptions align with my reference condition.") Then, someone tells me
that so-and-so is going around making statements that, intended or not,
strike me as having the effect of besmirching my reputation. In turn, I
confront so-and-so, inquiring as to the purpose and aims of such statements.

In this case, am I aware of a disturbance and its source?

Regards,

Fred Nickols
The Distance Consulting Company
nickols@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm

[From Rick Marken (980306.1020)]

Fred Nickols (980306) --

In turn, I confront so-and-so, inquiring as to the purpose and
aims of such statements.

In this case, am I aware of a disturbance and its source?

Yes. We can often perceive (and, therefore, become aware of)
disturbances to controlled variables. This is because we are
perceiving _many_ aspects of the world at the same time; some
of these perceptions are under control; some are not. When I
am driving down the highway, I am perceiving many variables,
including the position of the car relative to the road, the
angle of the trees, etc. Some of there variables (like the
position of the car) are under control. The system controlling
position of the car doesn't perceive (and doesn't need to perceive)
distrubances to this variable (like the wind); nor does it perecive
(or need to perceive) the effects of these disturbances on the
controlled variable (what Martin calls the "disturbance signal")
because such effects are always mixed with the effects of the
prevailing output. All the system controlling the position
of the car perceives (and controls) is the position of the car.
Another system in the driver might notice (perceive) the movement
of the trees; this system perceives one of the variables that
is a disturbance to the "position of car" variable. A still
higher level control system, one that perceives complex logical
relationships, can infer that the wind is blowing (because the
trees are moving) and that this wind must be the reason the
"position of car" control system has been turning the wheel
so much. (I have actually been in this situation; I knew the
wind was a disturbance only because I could see the trees moving;
otherwise, I had such good control of car position that I had
no idea anything was unusal outside).

A sudden gust may cause the "position of the car" to suddenly
move sharply from its reference. Again, a higher level system,
which can perceive such events, and this can be the basis for
an even higher level system inferring that a wind gust pushed
the car. But this is not important to the "position of car"
control system's ability to control the position of the car.

Because of our own higher level perceptual capabilities we are
often able to "see" the variables that are disturbing controlled
variables. But our ability to do this (as in the case of seeing
that it is windy) is not part of our ability to control the
variable (like "position of car") that is disturbed.

The reason it is important to understand this point (I think) is
because it is the basis for understanding that the outputs of
a control system control a perception; these outputs are _not_
caused by external stimuli (disturbances)

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken

[From Bill Powers (980306.2029 MST)]

Fred Nichold (980306) =--

Suppose I'm controlling for a perception of myself at work as "respected,
valued, and influential." Suppose that I receive signals from my world
indicating that I'm doing okay on that score. (Or if you prefer, "my
perceptions align with my reference condition.") Then, someone tells me
that so-and-so is going around making statements that, intended or not,
strike me as having the effect of besmirching my reputation. In turn, I
confront so-and-so, inquiring as to the purpose and aims of such statements.

In this case, am I aware of a disturbance and its source?

Yes, you're aware of the source of the disturbance, as well as experiencing
an error in some perception you want to control.

In this case, the controlled variable is "reputation," meaning what other
people say and believe about you. If someone is _deliberately_ besmirching
you, it will not do much good to confront that person (unless you have a
very big club at hand, like a hotshot lawyer). In any case, your most
direct route to correcting the error is to deal with the people whose
perceptions of you you want to change. Act directly on the variable you
want to control.

Note that my assertion is that control does not depend on perceiving the
causes of error signals. This by no means says that control cannot involve
going after the cause of the perturbation. It can, and sometimes it can be
improved by this means. It's much easier to replace the washer in the
faucet than to keep mopping the floor every morning.

What I argue against is any theory that says control can work ONLY by
perceiving the causes of a perturbation, or that it generally works BETTER
by that means.

Best,

Bill P.

···

At 04:03 PM 3/6/98 +0000, you wrote:

[Fred Nickols (980307.1245 EST)]

Bill Powers (980306.2029 MST) --

Fred:
Suppose I'm controlling for a perception of myself at work as "respected,
valued, and influential." Suppose that I receive signals from my world
indicating that I'm doing okay on that score. (Or if you prefer, "my
perceptions align with my reference condition.") Then, someone tells me
that so-and-so is going around making statements that, intended or not,
strike me as having the effect of besmirching my reputation. In turn, I
confront so-and-so, inquiring as to the purpose and aims of such statements.

In this case, am I aware of a disturbance and its source?

Bill:

Yes, you're aware of the source of the disturbance, as well as experiencing
an error in some perception you want to control.

In this case, the controlled variable is "reputation," meaning what other
people say and believe about you. If someone is _deliberately_ besmirching
you, it will not do much good to confront that person (unless you have a
very big club at hand, like a hotshot lawyer).

Fred:

Well, we clearly have different views on that score. Confronting
back-stabbers has proven effective in my experience.

In PCT terms, let's say I have a reference condition that says, "Other
people should not be going around trying to besmirch my reputation." When
someone does that, it seems to me that behavior putting an end to such
activities restores the disturbed perception.

Bill:

In any case, your most
direct route to correcting the error is to deal with the people whose
perceptions of you you want to change. Act directly on the variable you
want to control.

In this particular case, I'm worried that some perceptions of me MIGHT
change but I'm more intent on putting an end to what I would define as a
potential disturbance. Again, in PCT terms, I'm intent on convincing the
back-stabber to adopt a reference condition that might be stated as
"Behavior on my part that might be interpreted as besmirching Fred's
reputation is something to be avoided."

Bill:

Note that my assertion is that control does not depend on perceiving the
causes of error signals. This by no means says that control cannot involve
going after the cause of the perturbation. It can, and sometimes it can be
improved by this means. It's much easier to replace the washer in the
faucet than to keep mopping the floor every morning.

This is a very important point to me because, until now, my understanding of
your position (and Rick's) was that "going after the cause of the
perturbation" was not only not necessary but also not possible. That, I
couldn't fathom for consciously controlled perceptions (although I can grasp
that view for lower levels of control).

Bill:

What I argue against is any theory that says control can work ONLY by
perceiving the causes of a perturbation, or that it generally works BETTER
by that means.

Again, an important point. Presumably, the flip side is true, too; namely,
that there are occasions when going after the cause of a perturbation is a
smart thing to do (e.g., your example of the washer in the faucet). In that
vein, and to use that example, it seems to me that one reference condition
might pertain to something like "no water on the floor" or somesuch, and
another, perhaps at the same or higher level, might be something like "treat
underlying causes as well as presenting symptoms."

Thanks for responding...

By the way...from B:CP (which I've started to re-read):

        "Behavior is the process by which organisms control their
        input sensory data. For human beings, behavior is the
        control of perception." (p.xi)

Is it then fair and accurate to also say, "Behavior is the process by which
human beings control their perceptions."

Regards,

Fred Nickols
The Distance Consulting Company
nickols@worldnet.att.net
http://home.att.net/~nickols/distance.htm