Basic HPCT (was Re: Evolution of higher)

[From Rick Marken (2000.12.20.1440)]

Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.1600) --

You seem to have overlooked the possibility that order
is a controlled variable whose reference level can be
altered by the system controlling for respecting the student.
Perhaps your model does not allow for this level of
complexity.

"My model" is HPCT. It certainly allows for the possibility that
the reference for order in the classroom can be altered as the
means of controlling a higher level variable, such as respect
for the student. You seem to have overlooked the fact that just
because the reference for a controlled variable, such as classroom
order, can be altered as the means of controlling some other
perception, such as respect, doesn't mean that that controlled
variable is not a controlled variable.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
MindReadings.com mailto: marken@mindreadings.com
www.mindreadings.com

[Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.1800)]

Rick Marken (2000.12.20.1440)

You seem to have overlooked the fact that just
because the reference for a controlled variable, such as classroom
order, can be altered as the means of controlling some other
perception, such as respect, doesn't mean that that controlled
variable is not a controlled variable.

Wrong. I never made that claim, nor do I believe it to be true.

BG

[From Rick Marken (2000.12.20.1540)]

Me:

You seem to have overlooked the fact that just because the
reference for a controlled variable, such as classroom
order, can be altered as the means of controlling some other
perception, such as respect, doesn't mean that that controlled
variable is not a controlled variable.

Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.1800)--

Wrong. I never made that claim, nor do I believe it to be
true.

That's great. But then what was the point of saying:

You seem to have overlooked the possibility that order is
a controlled variable whose reference level can be altered
by the system controlling for respecting the student

You said this in response to my question to Bill:

...Do you really think it is an "oversimplification" to say
that teachers are controlling for order in the class when
they _are_?

The implication of your answer [Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.1800)]
(to me, anyway) was that the notion that teachers control
for order was an oversimplification because the reference
for order could be varied by the reference for respect. If
that's not what you were saying, then I presume that we can
agree that there is a rather substantial amount of evidence
that teachers -- even RTP teachers -- control for order in
their classes, among other things.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
MindReadings.com mailto: marken@mindreadings.com
www.mindreadings.com

[Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.2000)]

Rick Marken (2000.12.20.1540)

The implication of your answer [Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.1800)]
(to me, anyway) was that the notion that teachers control
for order was an oversimplification because the reference
for order could be varied by the reference for respect. If
that's not what you were saying, then I presume that we can
agree that there is a rather substantial amount of evidence
that teachers -- even RTP teachers -- control for order in
their classes, among other things.

Do you actually believe that is a controversial point? That anyone believes
that teachers do not control for order in their classrooms? How singular.
No wonder you keep making the same points over and over and over again.

BG.

[From Rick Marken (2000.12.20.2020)]

Me:

I presume that we can agree that there is a rather substantial
amount of evidence that teachers -- even RTP teachers -- control
for order in their classes, among other things.

Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.2000)--

Do you actually believe that is a controversial point?

It seemed to be somewhat controversial to you and Bruce Nevin.
But if it's not, that great. But then why the death threats
[Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.1345)]?

Best

Rick

···

--

Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: marken@mindreadings.com
mindreadings.com

[From Bruce Gregory (2000.1221.0509)]

Rick Marken (2000.12.20.2020)]

It seemed to be somewhat controversial to you and Bruce Nevin.
But if it's not, that great. But then why the death threats
[Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.1345)]?

I was expressing a wee bit of frustration. I apologize if I seemed hostile.
I only wish your insight into classroom practice matched your insight into
political practice. But I realize that would be asking a lot. In the coming
year I'll confine myself to reading your political posts. Happy holidays!

BG

[From Bruce Nevin (2000.12.21 11:33 EST)]

Rick Marken (2000.12.20.2020)--

···

At 08:21 PM 12/20/2000 -0800, Rick Marken wrote:

>[...] RTP teachers -- control
> for order in their classes, among other things.

Bruce Gregory (2000.1220.2000)--

> Do you actually believe that is a controversial point?

It seemed to be somewhat controversial to you and Bruce Nevin.

Wierd.

         Bruce Nevin