[From Kenny Kitzke (2012.09.16.1700 EDT)
Fred has made some interesting points. Bill, I think it is a mistake to suggest that Level 10 represents “beliefs” for the reasons you have related. Principles is a much better descriptive term. It has a much better scientific connotation than “beliefs.” Beliefs can occur at many levels of perception. As a tennis fanatic, I believe that Roger Federer is the best tennis player of all times. But, this is a category and even the most ardent Pete Sampras fans will not get very disturbed if I do not share their view.
When it comes to whether there is a “God” or not, of if His prominent prophet is JC or Mohammed, those are fighting words of belief under system perceptions that have rather universal and serious consequences.
I have tried to quit using “beliefs” when using PCT speak. Hopefully, the golden rule to do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is an principle for reducing conflict between people that few would contest whether you think the concept or the words are from the Bible or from some philosopher or psychologist.
Principles convey generalities which can be more easily tested and their veracity determined by data/results and not opinions, even studied and reasoned opinions.
Kenny
In a message dated 9/16/2012 9:20:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, powers_w@FRONTIER.NET writes:
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Fred Nickols (2012.09.15.1900 PDT) -- FN: Thanks, Ted. From the look of the eleven levels, beliefs would fit into level 10 – principles. If that’s the case, level 11, Systems, would set the reference conditions for level 10. In other words, according to PCT, systems establish reference conditions for beliefs. I have this gnawing feeling that it’s the other way around.[From Bill Powers (2012.09.16.0705 MDT)]
BP: Try it this way: you tell me what a belief is, and I will try to tell you where beliefs fit into the proposed levels.
For example, if I say I believe that today is Sunday, I might put that belief at the category level – the name of a kind of perception. But how is that different from saying I “know” today is Sunday, or I “think” today is Sunday, or I “doubt” that today is Saturday? Also, does what I believe make a difference in the meaning of the word? Is the word “believe” the same in these two sentences? (1) I believe today is Sunday, and (2) I believe in God.See also the post to Kenny Kitzke which I am about to write.
Best,
Bill P.