Bridges to Bruce

[From Rick Marken (980104.1330)]


So even if subjects are closed-loop systems (as per PCT)
psychophysical and other conventional experiments tell us
virtually nothing about the behavior of these systems

Martin Taylor (980104 12:20) --

And it is this that I dispute.

Yes. You and Bruce Abbott. Hmmm...

What they tell us is about limits on the ability of people to
control those perceptual variables they choose to control.

How, pray tell, can conventional psychophysical experiments tell
us this when we have no way of knowing what perceptual variables
are being controlled by the subjects in these experiments?

Why are you so desperate to imagine that the results of conventional
psychophysical experiments, experiments done under the assumption
that people are input-output rather than input-control systems,
mean what those who did them say they mean? Why don't you see
Bill Powers' point -- that these experiments must be _repeated_
using PCT methodology to see what was actually going on? Do
you think that, for some reason, psychophysists (as opposed to
other psychologists using conventional input-output-based
methodology) are immune to the behavioral illusion?

To paraphrase Mark Lazare:

Do not ask for whom the clue phone rings.
It rings for thee.





Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: