Bridges to the ridiculous

[From Rick Marken (980103.0950)]

Martin Taylor (9801013 11:55) --

The issue is whether the components of the control systems
perform the same way when the relevant perception is actively
under control as when it isn't..It is this, not the question of
experimental method, that may determine whether the results of
psychophysical studies are useful in teasing apart the functions
of individual loop components.

This is your issue, not Bill's or isaac's or mine. If organisms are
perceptual control systems, then they are control systems no matter
_what_ kind of experiment (or natural setting) they are in. The
problem with conventional psychophysical (and other behavioral)
studies is _methodological_; there is no way of telling, from
the results of these studies, what perceptions the organism is
controlling -- period, amen. This is why these studies are useless
to PCT.

You seem to be saying that psychophysical experiments are useful
if organisms still function as control systems in these experiments.
This is NOT TRUE; and this was isaac's point. When you say
something goofy like this, what you are saying is that _all_
conventional psychology experiments ever done are useful if
organisms were acting as control systems in these experiments.
Well, they _were_ acting as control systems in these experiments.
But the results of these experiments are still useless because they
tell you nothing about the fact that these organisms _are_
controlling perceptions, what perceptions they are controlling
and how and why they are controlling them.





Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: