Changing Times

[From Rick Marken (2007.11.03.1600)]

Bill Powers (2007.11.02.0600 MDT) --

Just a few minutes to dash off a post before breakfast on this fourth very
busy day. We have many strong allies here at the University of Manchester.
They are eager to learn more and are doing well at absorbing PCT.

Well, that's great to hear. It's quite a change from the attitude of
at least one Brit following the publication of B:CP. I ran across the
attached review of B:CP that appeared in the British Journal of
Psychology back in 1975. The reviewer was right about one thing; the
control system model has not come under much experimental scrutiny. Of
course, he didn't know why it wouldn't so it has to qualify as a lucky
guess.

Dag, I think this review should definitely become part of the CSG archives.

Best regards

Rick

BCPReview.pdf (207 KB)

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Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

Content-Type: application/pdf; name=BCPReview.pdf
X-Attachment-Id: f_f8kqkhz8

[From Dag Forssell (2007.11.04.1130 PST)]

[From Rick Marken (2007.11.03.1600)]

<snip>

Dag, I think this review should definitely become part of the CSG archives.

Rick, I read this review and I wonder what you have in mind. Archives in the historic sense, yes, but not in the sense of posting it on the web at this stage, right? I do not find it much other than confused.

Best, Dag

[From Rick Marken (2007.11.04.1610 PST)]

Dag Forssell (2007.11.04.1130 PST)]

Rick, I read this review and I wonder what you have in mind. Archives
in the historic sense, yes, but not in the sense of posting it on the
web at this stage, right? I do not find it much other than confused.

Yes, I just meant that it should go in the historic archives. But I
think it should be available on the net, perhaps with other critical
reviews/papers. Maybe you could have a button at your site labeled
"Not everyone got it". That and other critical papers (like the Baum
and Reese comments on Bill's 1973 _SCience_ paper and Fowler and
Turvey's classic from back in 1978, which I'll try to get to you in
PDF) would be available at the site. I think it would be fun to have
that information available on the net.

Best

Rick

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--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Dag Forssell (2007.11.05.0845 PST)]

My mail connection refused to send this yesterday, so I am trying again.

Rick, I think we can work that out. I look forward to the critiques you mention.

Best, Dag

···

Rick Marken (2007.11.04.1610 PST)

> Dag Forssell (2007.11.04.1130 PST)]

> Rick, I read this review and I wonder what you have in mind. Archives
> in the historic sense, yes, but not in the sense of posting it on the
> web at this stage, right? I do not find it much other than confused.

Yes, I just meant that it should go in the historic archives. But I
think it should be available on the net, perhaps with other critical
reviews/papers. Maybe you could have a button at your site labeled
"Not everyone got it". That and other critical papers (like the Baum
and Reese comments on Bill's 1973 _SCience_ paper and Fowler and
Turvey's classic from back in 1978, which I'll try to get to you in
PDF) would be available at the site. I think it would be fun to have
that information available on the net.

Best

Rick
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Bill Powers (2007.11.05.0520 MDT)]

Rick Marken (2007.11.03.1600) –

Good find. It’s fascinating how people can say “I don’t see how you
can say that” without realizing who it is that isn’t seeing
something.

I do wish, of course, that I could have published in 1973 the book I’m
working on now. But the equipment just wasn’t there, in my computer or my
brain. I admit to syntactical problems, which I hope have abated
somewhat.

I’d say that PCT has a firm foothold at the University of Manchester. I
gave a seminar at the University’s School of Psychological Sciences last
Thursday, which was well received (one student stopped by to say that
seeing the demonstrations explained made sense of everything she had been
reading about PCT for Warren Mansell’s classes). One person started
asking very skeptical questions after the demo of “choosing
control” (the ball that changes shape, position, and orientation),
began getting more interested at the live block diagram, and waxed
enthusiastic when we did a tracking run (Tim Carey operating the mouse)
and got an RMS matching error of 1.6%. This person turned out to be Paul
Beatty, a Senior Lecturer in Biomedical Engineering. One of his students
is studying schizophrenics, looking for ways to measure their ability to
focus attention on a task. I suggested using the tracking experiment
which can measure control parameters, with the result that there’s going
to be an email collaboration.

Richard Kennaway was there, along with Bobbie Bolman and Lloyd
Kliendinst, Perry and Fred Good, Richard Pfau, Bjorn Simonsen, Margaret
and Chris Spratt, and Tim Carey, all of whom we have seen at CSG
conferences. Richard K. didn’t prepare a talk, but we persuaded him to
show his bug demo, which went over very well. I’m sure I’m leaving
obvious people out, but we’ll publish a list as soon as we have it.
Warren Mansell handled the conference just beautifully, and is clearly a
superb teacher of PCT. Tim C. put on a long series of varied MOL demos
without a hitch, too, and it was a lot of fun to see him in lecture mode
being skillful and entertaining. The whole meeting was right up there
with the best ones we’ve had in the CSG.

The name “International Control Systems Group” came up rather
decisively, and I think that’s where we should head. Tim Carey will very
likely host a meeting in Australia in 2009, which might also serve as the
annual US-CSG meeting as we did in China in 2006. Anyone in a position to
seek support from granting institutions might start thinking about that
now. Dag’s job as archivist might become a lot bigger – I wonder if it
would be possible to persuade Greg Williams (and maybe Pat, too) to start
taking an active part in the CSG again.

I’m keeping an eye out for the delivery man who is bringing my suitcase
from the airport this morning. The connection in Chicago was tight, so my
bag decided to take a more leisurely trip.

Best regards to all, and glad to be back,

Bill P.

[From Rick Marken (2007.11.05.0850)]

Bill Powers (2007.11.05.0520 MDT)--

Rick Marken (2007.11.03.1600) --

Good find. It's fascinating how people can say "I don't see how you can say
that" without realizing who it is that isn't seeing something.

I do wish, of course, that I could have published in 1973 the book I'm
working on now. But the equipment just wasn't there, in my computer or my
brain. I admit to syntactical problems, which I hope have abated somewhat.

Welcome back!!

I think B:CP was so well written; if there were syntactical problems
they just provided a nice respite from the otherwise perfectly crafted
prose, making it even more perfect;-) The reviewer would have better
spent his time if he had tried to understand what you were saying --
as I did.

The name "International Control Systems Group" came up rather decisively,
and I think that's where we should head. Tim Carey will very likely host a
meeting in Australia in 2009, which might also serve as the annual US-CSG
meeting as we did in China in 2006.

I'm there!! I'd love to go to Australia. Let's do it for sure!!

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com

[From Rick Marken (2007.11.07.0900)]

Dag Forssell (2007.11.05.0845 PST)--

My mail connection refused to send this yesterday, so I am trying again.

Rick, I think we can work that out. I look forward to the critiques
you mention.

I looked on the web and didn't find them there. I might have them in
my files and,if so, I'll scan them and send them to you.

I do think it would be nice to have published criticisms of PCT in the
net archives because at least it is explicit. I've found it
exasperating that much of the criticism of PCT has come in the form of
ignoring it.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken PhD
rsmarken@gmail.com