China DVD

[From Bill Powers (2006.08.02.2005 MDT)]

I have five DVDs I'm supposed to forward to various people, but only the first disk plays if I use Cyberlink Power DVD and the second one won't play at all. So I guess I'll wait until someone figures it all out. If Mark manages to make them readable, maybe Dag will take charge of distributing them given reimbursement. I'll just stand by until there's a solution.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Bryan Thalhammer (2006.08.02.2135 CDT)]

How about this: A friend of mine said that a DVD recorded in videocam can have several sessions. But to be played on another player, it must be finalized or closed by the DVD videocam. Can that be an answer, and if so, can that still be done? :slight_smile:

--Bry

Bill Powers wrote:

···

[From Bill Powers (2006.08.02.2005 MDT)]

I have five DVDs I'm supposed to forward to various people, but only the first disk plays if I use Cyberlink Power DVD and the second one won't play at all. So I guess I'll wait until someone figures it all out. If Mark manages to make them readable, maybe Dag will take charge of distributing them given reimbursement. I'll just stand by until there's a solution.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Kenny Kitzke (2006.08.02.2005)]

<Bill Powers (2006.08.02.2005 MDT)>

<I have five DVDs I’m supposed to forward to various people, but only
the first disk plays if I use Cyberlink Power DVD and the second one
won’t play at all.>

Just a little update on my experience. I am able to play DVD 1 with Windows Media Player. It seems a little slow and does not show the video (just a black screen) even though it shows “Playing.” But, when I click “Chapter 1” in the contents listing, then the video comes on just fine.

This morning I retried playing DVD 2. Again, nothing seemed to work. I got a phone call and to my surprise, when I returned to the computer, it began playing. It is very slow to read or play and takes some extra clicks like DVD 1, but 2 does seem to work. Unfortunately, I had to stop playing and eject to go to my client and did not have any time to investigate it more. And, I am too tired to try more tonight.

When I tried playing DVD 1 with Real Player, it did not seem to work. So, I guess there is something about the China format used that limits its playability on other software. But, I surely do not understand these differences.

<So I guess I’ll wait until someone figures it all
out. If Mark manages to make them readable, maybe Dag will take
charge of distributing them given reimbursement. I’ll just stand by
until there’s a solution.>

I would caution about CSG making any copies or distributing these DVD’s (especially with any money reimbursement for this or them) WITHOUT some kind of prior approval from SCNU.

I will try to contact Fan about this and see if we can get some extra DVD’s and Proceedings either free or for a fee or approval to reproduce them for distribution or sale. I have received about five requests for each, so far. I would not think that would be a problem, but listing them for distribution without SCNU approval would seem presumptive.

From [Marc Abrams (2006.08.02.0031)]

···

-----Original Message-----

From: powers_w@FRONTIER.NET

To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU

Sent: Wed, 2 Aug 2006 10:09 PM

Subject: China DVD

[From Bill Powers (2006.08.02.2005 MDT)]

I have five DVDs I’m supposed to forward to various people, but only the first disk plays if I use Cyberlink Power DVD and the second >one won’t play at all. So I guess I’ll wait until someone figures it all out. If Mark manages to make them readable, maybe Dag will take >charge of distributing them given reimbursement. I’ll just stand by until there’s a solution.

Sounds like a plan. When I get the disks I’ll inform the group as to the possible solutions I can help provide. There are a number of possibilities including the possibility that I can do nothing. :wink: But I think this is not the case and I should be able to make viable masters.

Dag, do you want to take on the distribution? If so, I’ll send the masters to you. Actually I think sending you the masters whether you do or do not distribute the disks will be a good idea, so I’ll send one set to Dag and if someone else is going to handle the distribution,a set to them.

Lets see how it falls out.

Regards,

Marc


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[From Bill Powers (2006.08.03.0550 MDT)]

Kenny Kitzke (2006.08.02.2005)--

I would caution about CSG making any copies or distributing these DVD's (especially with any money reimbursement for this or them) WITHOUT some kind of prior approval from SCNU.

I will try to contact Fan about this and see if we can get some extra DVD's and Proceedings either free or for a fee or approval to reproduce them for distribution or sale. I have received about five requests for each, so far. I would not think that would be a problem, but listing them for distribution without SCNU approval would seem presumptive.

Kenny, you're perfectly right. Mark could go ahead and look into converting the disks, but the rest should wait until we get permission. Glad you're handling this, Mr. President.

Best,

Bill P.

From [Marc Abrams (2006.08.03.0928)]

[From Bill Powers (2006.08.03.0550 MDT)]

Kenny, you’re perfectly right. Mark could go ahead and look into converting the disks, but the rest should wait until we get permission. >Glad you’re handling this, Mr. President.

Both Bryan and Rick brought up the copyright issue a few days ago and Rick said he would check it out.

Unless I hear otherwise I’m going with the notion that there are no issues. In the worst case scenario I’ll convert whatever supply of DVD’s you do have on hand into usable disks if I can without making additional “copies” for distribution.

This is of course is assuming they would not mind you having working copies of the DVD’s they gave you. But frankly I really can’t think of any reason why they could possibly want to limit distribution on something like this.

We’ll see.

Regards,

Marc

···

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Ken,

If looking for permission to copy DVD’s
or purchase functioning DVD’s in North America,
I would expect those of us having attended the conference from IAACT will
also want copies, me for one. They will be useful to many of us.
As well, there may be some people who were not able to get to the conference
that may be interested, so I would appreciate your asking about permission for
at least a dozen copies for us just in case. I will check with the IAACT
community as to numbers. Thanks in advance.

Shelley Brierley

···

From: Control Systems
Group Network (CSGnet) [mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kitzke Value Creation
Systems
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006
8:00 PM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU
Subject: Re: China DVD

[From Kenny Kitzke (2006.08.02.2005)]

<Bill Powers (2006.08.02.2005 MDT)>

<I have five DVDs I’m supposed to forward to various
people, but only

the first disk plays if I use Cyberlink Power DVD and the second one

won’t play at all.>

Just a little update on my experience. I am able
to play DVD 1 with Windows Media Player. It seems a little slow and
does not show the video (just a black screen) even though it shows
“Playing.” But, when I click “Chapter 1” in the
contents listing, then the video comes on just fine.

This morning I retried playing DVD 2. Again, nothing
seemed to work. I got a phone call and to my surprise, when I returned to
the computer, it began playing. It is very slow to read or play and takes
some extra clicks like DVD 1, but 2 does seem to work. Unfortunately, I
had to stop playing and eject to go to my client and did not have any time
to investigate it more. And, I am too tired to try more tonight.

When I tried playing DVD 1 with Real Player, it did not seem
to work. So, I guess there is something about the China format
used that limits its playability on other software. But, I surely do not
understand these differences.

<So I guess I’ll wait until someone figures it all

out. If Mark manages to make them readable, maybe Dag will take

charge of distributing them given reimbursement. I’ll just stand by

until there’s a solution.>

I would caution about CSG making any copies or distributing
these DVD’s (especially with any money reimbursement for this or them) WITHOUT
some kind of prior approval from SCNU.

I will try to contact Fan about this and see if we can get
some extra DVD’s and Proceedings either free or for a fee or approval to
reproduce them for distribution or sale. I have received about five
requests for each, so far. I would not think that would be a problem, but
listing them for distribution without SCNU approval would seem presumptive.

[From Kenny Kitzke (2006.08.03.2006)]

To All:

Just a bit of clarification about the China DVD and the 2006 CSG Conference.

Remember, this was a joint conference with the International Conference of Complexity Science. The agenda and format were therefore different from our typical three-day CSG Conference.

Day 1, July 17:Basically our Standard CSG Introductions/Registration, PCT Workshop Presentations for Day 3 and a few informal PCT Presentations.

Day 2, July 18: Opening Ceremony and Formal Joint Session with Presentations (Bill Powers, Rick Marken, Shelley Roy and Gary Cziko of CSG Made PCT-related Keynote Speeches or Presentations) These were simultaneously translated.

Day 3, July 19: Separate PCT and Systems Science Workshop Sessions and Joint Closing Ceremony

The China (SCNU) DVD’s 1 and 2 did not include our CSG Meeting on July 17, our PCT Workshop on July 19 or our Business Meeting. It may have included the Systems Science Workshop but that was given in Chinese.

The good news is that Lloyd Klindinst made a video (digital, I think) of ALL the sessions acting in place of Dag. So, I believe that recording will be available through Dag in the normal way and time and in a format that will work for the USA devices. Lloyd, if you see this could you confirm the situation?

The point is that the China DVD may only contain the Systems Science Workshop Presentations which are in Chinese not on Lloyd’s video. They also had a roving cameraman so there are pictures of the audience, etc., that would be different from the tripod shot that Lloyd.

All this to try to make clear that the issues concerning the China DVD may be somewhat moot since our typical CSG recording should be available, useable and contains footage of our PCT Workshop which the China DVD does not. In essence, the best package may be our own Video plus the Proceedings for those who would be interested in the Systems Science Papers presented.

IAE, I have written Ms. Fan about the China DVD’s and the Proceedings and whether we can obtain additional copies either free or at a unit price from them and whether we could have permission to copy them for use or sale benefitting the CSG.

As far as Shelley Brierley’s IIACT request, I will add about a dozen DVD’s for your potential use. I had hoped to get a ballpark number of additional copies before asking SCNU for more. I think we will soon reach an understanding that will please everyone. It just takes some dialogue and patience. We need to ask for permission to copy or use their DVD’s out of courtesy, even if not required from a legal standpoint.

I’ll be happy to be the contact point on this as far as SCNU goes on their DVD or published Proceedings. Let me know if you don’t really want the China DVD assuming that we have our own CSG video available as typical per Lloyd/Dag.

From [Marc Abrams (2006.08.03.1341)]

[From Kenny Kitzke (2006.08.03.2006)]

To All:

Just a bit of clarification about the China DVD and the 2006 CSG Conference.

Remember, this was a joint conference with the International Conference of Complexity Science. The agenda and format were >therefore different from our typical three-day CSG Conference.

This indeed sheds a different light on things. If the DVD’s are the formal proceedings of a joint venture than they very well may want to be compensated for any copies distributed.

I thought the DVD’s were a bit of “home-video” on the lines of what Dag has done over the years for CSGnet.

When you folks decide what you want to do let me know.

Again, I would find it kind of ironic if they did block any efforts to duplicate. In dealing with the Chinese during the mid eighties in micro software there was not a copyright or patent they felt obliged to honor.

Maybe this new wave of capitalism has fostered some new found respect and ideas about private property.

In any event, if and when you want me to lend a hand, all you need do is ask… I certainly do not want to foster any ill will toward our Chinese friends.

Regards,

Marc

···

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[From Rick Marken (2006.08.03.1130)]

Kenny Kitzke (2006.08.03.2006)--

The good news is that Lloyd Klindinst made a video (digital, I think) of ALL the sessions acting in place of Dag. So, I believe that recording will be available through Dag in the normal way and time and in a format that will work for the USA devices. Lloyd, if you see this could you confirm the situation?

I think this is the way to go. It would be nice if Marc can get the China CD into a nice, easy to play DVD format but since Lloyd's video probably has about the same stuff -- probably more that's relevant to us because he has the CSG session that occurred the day after the keynotes -- without any concerns about copyright, then I will look forward to getting copies of a DVD of the conference based on Lloyd's tapes.

Best

Rick

···

---
Richard S. Marken Consulting
marken@mindreadings.com
Home 310 474-0313
Cell 310 729-1400

Ken,

Thanks for your detailed information which
will help clarify what people are asking for when they are asking. As far
as I am concerned, what I really want is the DVD from the main sessions and the
talks given there. Thanks again for all your help in facilitating the use
of the DVD’s. I will send a copy of your email to IAACT for
Distribution so we have a closer number of who is actually interested in what, if
that is Ok with you. Let me know as soon as possible as I leave for North Carolina Sat 6 am
our time.

Shelley Brierley

···

From: Control Systems
Group Network (CSGnet) [mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kitzke Value Creation
Systems
Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2006
10:14 AM
To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU
Subject: Re: China DVD

[From Kenny Kitzke (2006.08.03.2006)]

To All:

Just a bit of clarification about the China DVD and the 2006
CSG Conference.

Remember, this was a joint conference with the International
Conference of Complexity Science. The agenda and format were therefore
different from our typical three-day CSG Conference.

Day 1, July 17:Basically our Standard CSG
Introductions/Registration, PCT Workshop Presentations for Day 3 and a
few informal PCT Presentations.

Day 2, July 18: Opening Ceremony and Formal Joint
Session with Presentations (Bill Powers, Rick Marken, Shelley Roy and Gary
Cziko of CSG Made PCT-related Keynote Speeches
or Presentations) These were simultaneously translated.

Day 3, July 19: Separate PCT and Systems Science
Workshop Sessions and Joint Closing Ceremony

The China (SCNU) DVD’s 1 and 2 did not include our CSG
Meeting on July 17, our PCT Workshop on July 19 or our Business Meeting.
It may have included the Systems Science Workshop but that was given in Chinese.

The good news is that Lloyd Klindinst made a video (digital,
I think) of ALL the sessions acting in place of Dag. So, I believe that
recording will be available through Dag in the normal way and time and in a
format that will work for the USA
devices. Lloyd, if you see this could you confirm the situation?

The point is that the China DVD may only contain the Systems
Science Workshop Presentations which are in Chinese not on Lloyd’s video.
They also had a roving cameraman so there are pictures of the audience, etc.,
that would be different from the tripod shot that Lloyd.

All this to try to make clear that the issues concerning the
China DVD may be somewhat moot since our typical CSG recording should be
available, useable and contains footage of our PCT Workshop which the China DVD
does not. In essence, the best package may be our own Video plus the
Proceedings for those who would be interested in the Systems Science
Papers presented.

IAE, I have written Ms. Fan about the China DVD’s and the
Proceedings and whether we can obtain additional copies either free or at
a unit price from them and whether we could have permission to copy them for
use or sale benefitting the CSG.

As far as Shelley Brierley’s IIACT request, I will add
about a dozen DVD’s for your potential use. I had hoped to get
a ballpark number of additional copies before asking SCNU for more.
I think we will soon reach an understanding that will please everyone. It
just takes some dialogue and patience. We need to ask for permission to
copy or use their DVD’s out of courtesy, even if not required from a legal
standpoint.

I’ll be happy to be the contact point on this as far as
SCNU goes on their DVD or published Proceedings. Let me know if you
don’t really want the China DVD assuming that we have our own CSG video
available as typical per Lloyd/Dag.