Melding
[From Bjorn Simonsen (2003.12.04 13,25 EuST)]
Martin Taylor 2003.12.02 1016 EST
<.............I think the answer lies in time scales, the relative stability of the "rules of the world"
and the definition of planning.
Interesting.I will say something about time and about definition.
I have discussed the concept planning one or two times earlier. But I got a negative response and answers indicating that Planning is a NO interesting concept in PCT. Shall we try to go a step forward? (or is it back again?). We need to exemplify the concept, define the concept and describe what is happening in the hierarchy.
You described an example where you used the concept Planning. This is good enough:
Example
<I may make a plan when I am in school that by the time I am 50 I will be President. That plan involves
taking certain school courses and then getting involved in local politics, and so on and so forth. But the
execution of the plan involves lots of variation within that plan, and over months and years even the
high-level environment may change. I may realize that I am not approaching my goal, or, in PCT terms,
the error in my "perceive myself to be achieving the Presidency" control system is not decreasing. I
may choose different methods, such as organizing a military coup. Again, planning comes in, but
on-line control at lower levels is required to deal with the faster disturbances that usually occur at
the lower perceptual levels.>
Before I hint at a definition for the concept Planning, I will comment parts of your mail.
<In mainstream psychology, memory has a variety of types: memory of how to do something
(in PCT, largely embodied in the reorganization of the structure of the hierarchy), >
For me “memory of how to do something” is the same as B:CP names Remembering. I don’t disregard Remembering involve reorganization, but that is when Remembering is unsuccessful. I think Remembering in essentials is control at the Reorganizations level with non switches vertical.
If I go into Imagination mode and try to remember how to come from A to B, I may not succeed. The error provokes a perception signal which after output initiate new perceptual signals also going to the levels above. This may (after some time (slowing factor)) bring me to control the perception “finding a map”. I have a control system for finding and reading a map. Reorganization is unnecessary. You said the same: "Even without reorganization, a control system is likely to have various actions available to it, and if one is blocked, another will be used.
<memory for the momentarily unsensed states of the environment that are currently part of the perceptions
in the hierarchy (currently part of "speculative PCT"),>
I agree. That form for memory is what I will emphasize unconscious perceptions. I think Bill described it nearly as you:
[From Bill Powers (2003.11.27.1543 MST)]
<…When you examine an object, you can perceptually analyze it into smaller objects, in the way
that a chair is seen to be made of arms, legs, rungs, decorations, and whatever other parts there are. It can
also be seen as part of a display of furniture in a store, and the store can be seen as part of the shape of a
city, and so forth. Going to the smallest possible parts, like atomic particles, or the largest, like galaxies,
requires imagination.
I don’t visualize planning as connected with that form for memory or unconscious perceptions.
<So it is incorrect to say "planning can't help us control in any real world situation". It is more
accurate to say that disturbances may require continuous observation to control well, despite
good planning.>
I am inclined to agree. Disturbances is transformed in the input function to perceptual signals, and they are controlled.
<But if planning is at a relatively high perceptual level, the relevant actions are executed by
providing reference values for control systems at a lower level. These need not be planned.
The high-level perceptual environment may be (and often is) much more stable than the
immediate sensory environment.>
I imagine the planning in your example above as a high perceptual level, higher than events. If one plans something to happen in a month or a year I imagine it is a kind of relationship level planning. Happenings are perceived relative to other happenings. I think all planning is at levels above the Events level.
<The "things in the world" change on varying time scales, and it is they that make "the best laid
plans of mice and men gang aft agley.">
I think time scales has something to do “in the real world”. There must be space and change for time to be perceived. When we make Plans, we omit time. There are seldom time scales in Plans, there are Relationships.
I imagine Planning as a kind of imagining. Planning is imagining (both switches are disconnected).
I think the lowest level for planning is the Relationships level, but Planning/imagining may send perceptions to higher levels. I think the Programs level very often is active. I think the example of planning above is a Planning/Imagining at the levels between the Relationships level and the Principles Level. This Planning is more or less stable, it can be fragmentary, difficult to express with words and I can say more.
It is accepted that we in Imagination mode can imagine an elephant with a horse’s head. Something not existing. In the same way it must be accepted that we can imagine a combination of perceptions that are existing. This combination of perceptions may be perceived at a later moment of time when Plans are flipped in.
And here is my central point. When it is time to manipulate Planned perceptions we flip the memory switch to the reference position and initiating the lower-order behaviors. Now we are back in business. There certain is an uncertainty which control systems are initiated. I know Bill says “Unfortunately, the world is continuously changing, so what you need to do to have a certain effect on Monday will not be quite right on Tuesday”
But I don’t think he is a Behaviorist. I think he will also say: "There are many disturbances in the real world, but remember Behavior is Control of Perceptions and the Reference value is an important value. If the control of perceptions not results in an error with value zero, Reorganizing may happen.
I remember Rick [From Rick Marken (2003.08.25.0910)]
<Yet when we look at the basic phenomenon of control we see that
planning can't really "allow" us to control in situations where
there are unpredictable changes in the environment (variations
in disturbances to the variables we control) and/or our connection
to it (variations in functions connecting us to the variables
we control) -- that is, planning can't help us control in any real
world situation.>
I am inclined to say that Planning is imaging what to do. I accept Rick Marken (2003.05.07.1230) “Memory is the process of accessing previously experienced perceptions”. But in Imagining mode one at the Relationships level can combine previously experienced perceptions in a new Relationship. There is no guarantee that the Reference values which are put into operation provoke perceptions which result in an Error value at Zero. But this is “Business as usual”. Behavior is control of perceptions and if the error doesn’t approach zero, reorganization sets in.
Rick expresses the same in other words [From Rick Marken (2003.05.07.0910)]
<How much of our perception is built from
memory-produced perceptions is
an empirical question. My guess is relatively little for normal people,
quite a bit more for so-called schizophrenics.>
I may agree with Rick. Also I think people most control their perception. And that’s life.But when I use the concept Planning I hypothesize that normal people plan perceptions which they in Control mode can control.
I expect Rick then will say that those Plans are perceptions already existing in the hierarchy, and I think I still agree. But there has been a process in Imagining mode. And this process has activated the control of new (earlier existing?) perceptions. The result is that I control other perceptions I would have controlled if NO Planning had taken place.
So what is Planning comparative to PCT?
An example of planning is mentioned above.
Planning (a suggestion to definition): Planning is the process a person does in Imagination mode, perceiving at the Relationships level and higher perceptions which can be controlled in control mode.
What is happening in the hierarch when Planning: Look at B:CP page 221.
>I don't know if I answered the question, but it's a valuable topic.>
You did. And also I find Planning as a valuable topic. But I expect somebody saying Planning is a NON existing concept in PCT. The perceptions controlled after “a Planning” process are the perception controlled if “the Planning” process had not happened. … Who can verify that?
bjorn