[From Kenny Kitzke (2002.04.01)]
<Rick Marken (2002.03.30.0900)>
Once again, Rick, you bring onto this forum issues such as religion,
politics, etc., to seemingly try to make points about PCT issues such as
"conflict." I don't mind
<Gee, then why even bring it up?>
My answer is plain in the rest of my sentence that you left out: "I don't
mind, but others on this forum do."
The record shows that a number of CSG forum members (steadily shrinking and
now under 100 souls) do not think that discussing religion (even politics or
using analogies concerning Hitler, Clinton, Bush, etc.) or beliefs in God are
appropriate on a scientific forum like this. When you write this way, it
upsets certain people and some have either quit posting or left the forum
completely. I miss their contributions.
When I have responded to your references to God, and religious beliefs and
practices, which I sometimes find inaccurate and prejudicial and therefore
feel a need to refute, I usually get criticism for "preaching" or dealing
with "spiritual" stuff on a scientific forum. Sometimes, people have
recognized your instigation of such discussions, but often they just pile on
me for what I wrote in response. This even seems to have happened again.
So, since you are the only one on the forum that I can think of who regularly
brings up religious (or political) examples (which get into high level
personal references that often lead to high gain verbal assaults on the forum
and to hurt feelings) to make points about PCT, I was simply seeking your
cooperation in not using them. I think my statement which followed pointed
this way:
"And, in so doing, it seems that an un[in]tended consequence (I assume) is to
create conflict in this forum." And, Bill Powers seems to have at least
understood my plea though it apparently escapes you.
Now, this is totally selfish request of mine and totally consistent with PCT.
I am hoping to change the environment I experience through your posts.
Then, I don't have to decide not to respond (even though I care about the
subject and disagree with what you write) so as not to be perceived as some
kind of religious freak pushing my religion on this forum and get attacked.
I intend never to be the one to _start_ a thread on this forum that has a
religious or spiritual basis. I try to respect those who do not want their
CSGNet mailbox filled with such discussions. There are hundreds of such
forums and I spend far more time on them than I do on CSGNet.
But, if your persist, I will continue to choose to respond. And, I'll take
the heat from Bryan and any others who don't like what I say in response.
Such is life.
Since I don't mind discussing your perceptions on religious topics with you,
especially when they illustrate PCT understandings, and certainly if I think
they are inaccurate, I also made an offer which you ignored:
"If you want to discuss this "tragic irony" which you perceive, I'll be happy
to do so privately."
<It looks to me like you do mind and I suspect that this is because you are
controlling for seeing wisdom in the story of Exodus. My post was a
disturbance
to that perception.>
Sure, I mind, otherwise I would not have responded. But, you go and guess
what reference perception I am controlling with my action. If there is
anyone who should know how risky this kind of speculation is, and how it can
create "conflict," it should be you. But, no, you don't apply PCT, you
imagine a reason and act on your imagination. Why not respond privately and
ask me?
David responded to your similarly inaccurate imagination on what at least
some people who celebrate Passover are controlling.
The strangest thing to me in this exchange is that you solicited a response,
I responded (I think I was the only one to do so) and agreed with the "tragic
irony." I even agreed that God can be perceived as a "terrorist" under
certain definitions. I will admit I purposely used the term "evil doers"
thinking you would connect it to DubU and his reaction to the terrorists.
But, I also put a smile in there.
The only disagreement I expressed was with your conclusion:
<I'd say the odds of anyone figuring out how to solve this conflict are
somewhere between zero and zero.>
"While you say that, the Bible says otherwise." This is a fact. It is not
my opinion.
Lastly, I asked for your cooperation in avoiding highly charged personal
issues on the forum that are not essential to important concepts within PCT
such as "conflict" Aren't there plenty of examples of conflict in the news
every day that are not so personally charged that would provide adequate
examples of PCT in real life situations and applications?
It does not appear that your cooperation will be forthcoming. And, I will
continue to not solve my problem with your "religious oriented" posts by not
responding to avoid some heat from you or anyone else on the forum. Nor,
will I continue the dialogue you began on this forum about the celebration of
Passover or what it or God teaches by it publicly. I will respond to you
privately on those matters.
Have a great day! The problems in Israel will not be solved by you or by
anyone on this forum.