Control in Physiology

[From Marc Abrams (2001.0630.1900)]

Is anyone interested in discussing ( either publicly or privately ) the role
Control plays in Physiology.

Thanks,

Marc

from [Marc Abrams (2001.0702.1905)]

from [David Wolsk (2001.0630)]

> Marc,
> I think most physiologists have been working with a control orientation

for

> years. They may lack the mathematical skills of Bill Powers, but the
> working concepts are accepted.
> David W.

i.kurtzer (2001.0630.1645)

I think it would be most beneficial for someone to research, at your local
university library, on a specific topic in physiology and see where people
have found controlled variables and how they did so. In my experience

this

is extremely rare, though I presented two examples at last years

conference.

As an aside accepting the working concepts without the mathematical skills
is a great example of how to get nowhere. The concepts are just air

without

the skills.

i.

David, I agree with Issac. I think you are referring to the notion of
homeostasis. A text I have on Physiology talks about how important a
characteristic homeostasis is in Physiology and then goes on to describe it
(model) in a way that places the focus of the model with the output
(effector). No mention of controlled variables or disturbances affecting the
input ( receptors ). They talk about feedback but don't seem to address it
in their model

There are instances of work ( I have a few papers ) where Bill's model fits
in very nicely. But these seem to be the exception rather then the rule.

When you look at the various aspects of Physiology (i.e. Atom-> Molecule->
Cell-> Tissue-> Organ-> Organ System). It seems to me that the Power's model
of control is applicable both inter and intra the various levels.

Some questions I have.

What role does control play in the formation of molecules, cells, tissues,
organs and organ systems.
What role does control play in the change and maintenance of these?
Are there opportunities available for work ( research ) in these areas?

I spoke to Tom Bourbon and he related the nightmare he personally
experienced in trying to get Physiologists interested in Power's control
model.

I think this list might have some interest in neural physiology.

Marc

[From John Anderson (2001.07.02.1540)]

[From Marc Abrams (2001.0630.1900)]

Is anyone interested in discussing ( either publicly or
privately ) the role
Control plays in Physiology.

Yes, I would like to see that on CSGNET.

John

John Anderson, Ph.D.
Department of Natural Sciences
University of North Florida
4567 St Johns Bluff Road, South
Jacksonville, FL 32224

jander@unf.edu

[From Marc Abrams (2001.0630.1900)]

Is anyone interested in discussing ( either publicly or privately ) the

role

Control plays in Physiology.

Thanks,

Marc

Marc,
I think most physiologists have been working with a control orientation for
years. They may lack the mathematical skills of Bill Powers, but the
working concepts are accepted.
David W.

ยทยทยท

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Abrams <mabrams@NVBB.NET>
To: <CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 9:44 PM
Subject: Control in Physiology

i.kurtzer (2001.0630.1645)

> [From Marc Abrams (2001.0630.1900)]
>
> Is anyone interested in discussing ( either publicly or privately ) the
role
> Control plays in Physiology.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marc

Marc,
I think most physiologists have been working with a control orientation

for

years. They may lack the mathematical skills of Bill Powers, but the
working concepts are accepted.
David W.

I think it would be most beneficial for someone to research, at your local
university library, on a specific topic in physiology and see where people
have found controlled variables and how they did so. In my experience this
is extremely rare, though I presented two examples at last years conference.
As an aside accepting the working concepts without the mathematical skills
is a great example of how to get nowhere. The concepts are just air without
the skills.

i.

[From Bjoern Simonsen (2001.07.03,21:40 EST)]

From Marc Abrams (2001.0630.1900)

Is anyone interested in discussing ( either publicly or privately ) the

role

Control plays in Physiology.

Thanks,

Marc

I am not a physiologist. But I presume most of the control of perceptions we
call physiological are within the (five ?) lowest levels of the hierarchy of
control systems.
Maybe we could give each other a hint about how to model a simple
physiological control of perceptions?

Last winter I started to develop a track in a spreadsheet showing a "car"
moving on a "motor road" with tunnels and an object showing the eye and a
constringent iris dependent on the drivers position on the motor road (in
the tunel or not). I didn't succeed. I didn't manage to make the object.

Personally I'll prefer to exchange information publicly (as long as the list
exist ?)
I will also point out that I often can't answer the same night because
participation in CSG is an extracurricular activity, but I will take part.

It's your kick-off Marc?

Bjoern

[From Bjoern Simonsen(2001.07.05,22:00)EST]

from [Marc Abrams (2001.0702.1905)

Some questions I have.

What role does control play in the formation of molecules, cells, tissues,
organs and organ systems.
What role does control play in the change and maintenance of these?
Are there opportunities available for work ( research ) in these areas?

I guess you have read Bill's speculative essay "The origin of purpose: the
first metasystem transition."

Here he speculated about how control came into being in in the sea of chaos
after the big bang.
His essay was inspiring and I look upon the reference in an other way after
reading the essay.

Bjoern