Control of Error Values

CSGnet Archive CSG2014
1

Ref: Boris Hartman (2014.12.13 12:07)

HB: … I suppose next you will be claiming that error values are controlled as well, to complete the loop.

RP: Actually, I have the impression that we can control error values in ourselves, at least, as well as sometimes influence the error values that others experience.

In ourselves, this might be done by increasing awareness of perceptions of our actions and feelings (such as by Vipassana meditation training), and then becoming aware of feelings that arise (such as anger, grief, and intense desire for something), realizing what is happening, and perhaps simply observing those feelings until they calm down – this being a Vipassana approach that seems to either reduce those error signals directly, or indirectly such as by decreasing the importance/gain(?) of the reference signal that is associated with the error signal produced.

I any case, such an awareness approach would seem to enable one to reduce and control error values/signals that one is experiencing. Other approaches might also have similar results (such as by studies or direct experience that increases or decreases the importance of a reference value that one has, which in turn affects error values produced).

Using PCT theory, we might also say that the error values of other people can also sometimes be influenced by techniques such as information, propaganda, graphic descriptions, photographs, group demonstrations, training, … – but such approaches (as often used by politicians, activists, and the news media) are admittedly quite different from the awareness approach that one can use to control perceptions of feelings (and related error signals/values) that are occurring within one’s own body.

At least, that’s the way it seems to me at the present time.

With Regards,

Richard Pfau

···

From: Richard Pfau (2014.12.14 11:15 Nepal Time)

2

Hy Richard,

I didin’t say that. You mixed something…J

Best,

Boris

···

From: richardpfau4153@aol.com (via csgnet Mailing List) [mailto:csgnet@lists.illinois.edu]
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 6:30 AM
To: csgnet@listserv.illinois.edu
Subject: Control of Error Values

From: Richard Pfau (2014.12.14 11:15 Nepal Time)

Ref: Boris Hartman (2014.12.13 12:07)

HB: … I suppose next you will be claiming that error values are controlled as well, to complete the loop.

RP: Actually, I have the impression that we can control error values in ourselves, at least, as well as sometimes influence the error values that others experience.

In ourselves, this might be done by increasing awareness of perceptions of our actions and feelings (such as by Vipassana meditation training), and then becoming aware of feelings that arise (such as anger, grief, and intense desire for something), realizing what is happening, and perhaps simply observing those feelings until they calm down – this being a Vipassana approach that seems to either reduce those error signals directly, or indirectly such as by decreasing the importance/gain(?) of the reference signal that is associated with the error signal produced.

I any case, such an awareness approach would seem to enable one to reduce and control error values/signals that one is experiencing. Other approaches might also have similar results (such as by studies or direct experience that increases or decreases the importance of a reference value that one has, which in turn affects error values produced).

Using PCT theory, we might also say that the error values of other people can also sometimes be influenced by techniques such as information, propaganda, graphic descriptions, photographs, group demonstrations, training, … – but such approaches (as often used by politicians, activists, and the news media) are admittedly quite different from the awareness approach that one can use to control perceptions of feelings (and related error signals/values) that are occurring within one’s own body.

At least, that’s the way it seems to me at the present time.

With Regards,

Richard Pfau

3

[From Rick Marken (2014.12.14.1130)]

···

Richard Pfau (2014.12.14 11:15 Nepal Time)

RP: Actually, I have the impression that we can control error values in ourselves, at least, as well as sometimes influence the error values that others experience.

RP: In ourselves, this might be done by increasing awareness of perceptions of our actions and feelings (such as by Vipassana meditation training), and then becoming aware of feelings that arise (such as anger, grief, and intense desire for something), realizing what is happening, and perhaps simply observing those feelings until they calm down – this being a Vipassana approach that seems to either reduce those error signals directly, or indirectly such as by decreasing the importance/gain(?) of the reference signal that is associated with the error signal produced.

RM: I think this is a very important point. The feelings you are talking about – anger, grief, intense desire – are perceptions; they are facts! We call these perceptions “emotions” and PCT does provide an explanation of what these perceptions are and why we have them (see Ch. 17 in B:CP, 2nd Ed.).

RM: In PCT the perceptions we experience as emotions – like anger and grief – are not error signals per see – error signals are not perceptual signals. What we are perceiving (in theory) as emotions are physiological consequences of error signals that are ineffectively driving outputs in a control loop. .For example, the grief we feel at the loss of a loved one presumably results from the fact that we want to be with that loved one, we are not perceiving what we want so there is an error signal driving the physiological processes that are involved in producing the output (actions) that cannot possibly be effective at bringing back the loved one. It’s these physiological processes-- increased respiration, increased muscle effort due to adrenaline secretion, etc – that we perceive as the emotion.

RM: How we label our perception of the physiological consequences of failure to be able to control a perception, like the perception of a decreased loved one – whether we call it grief, anger, etc – depends (in theory) on what perception is we are failing to control. So we call the emotional perception “grief” if we lost a loved one and “anger” if we lost – or are losing-- an argument.We call it joy if the error (and thus the physiological side effects of that error) are decreasing rapidly.

RM: I think we do want to control emotional perceptions; indeed, emotional perception are probably the one’s that bring most people to a psychotherapist for help. Apparently Vipassana meditation training is an approach to controlling emotional perception. But I don’t think one can control emotional perceptions in the same way as they control the perceptions that we experience as reality: the perceptions that are (in theory) controlled by the PCT hierarchy. There are no actions one can take that will get those perceptions to their references. Well, you can take drugs that will mute the negative emotional perceptions. So, yes, you can control emotional perceptions to some extent. There may also be exercises one can do – like deep breathing and yoga type stretching – that will mute the emotions. And music works pretty well too; I’m currently listening to the second movement of Bach’s d major Concerto for 2 violins and I’m feeling pretty mellow.

RM: But I think PCT (and actual experience) would say that the only way to deal with chronic emotional perception is to reorganize one’s control hierarchy so that the chronic error that is the ultimate cause of the emotion no longer exists. And that’s a job for MOL. I would guess that, to the extent that Vipassana meditation training is effective at reducing unwanted emotional perception it does it by helping the practitioner "go up a level’ in consciousness and reorganize their control hierarchy. I think this is what happens in many meditation practices, which is probably why Powers often alluded to Buddhist philosophy in B:CP and other places.

RP: Using PCT theory, we might also say that the error values of other people can also sometimes be influenced by techniques such as information, propaganda, graphic descriptions, photographs, group demonstrations, training, … – but such approaches (as often used by politicians, activists, and the news media) are admittedly quite different from the awareness approach that one can use to control perceptions of feelings (and related error signals/values) that are occurring within one’s own body.

RM: Actually, I think they are the same. Creating errors in others by telling them lies is really the same as creating errors in ourselves by telling ourselves what are basically lies – that is, by imagining that things have happened that we don’t know have actually happened. Indeed, I think self created errors like this are one of the main causes of our personal miseries. I speak from experience;-)

Best

Rick

At least, that’s the way it seems to me at the present time.

With Regards,

Richard Pfau

–
Richard S. Marken, Ph.D.
Author of Doing Research on Purpose.
Now available from Amazon or Barnes & Noble

In nature there’s no blemish but the mind

None can be called deformed but the unkind.

Shakespeare, Twelfth Night