Control the meanings

CSGnet Archive CSG2010
1

( Gavin
Ritz 2010.12.09.20.12NZT)

A is said to control B if, for every disturbing
influence acting on B, A generates
an action that tends strongly to counteract the effect of the disturbing influence on B.(Bjorn’s statement)

Here are some definitions
of control from PCT books and from other sources

Achievement
and maintenance of a pre-selected perceptual state in the controlling system, through
actions on the environment that also cancel out the effects of disturbances. (Powers)

If a person is to control
something, the person has to be able to affect whatever is to be controlled. (Powers)

Controlling means
producing repeatable consequences by variable actions. (Powers)

Perception tells us of
the current status of whatever it is we are trying to control. (Powers)

To control something is
to act to bring it to a specified condition and then maintain it close to that condition and then ** maintain** that condition even if
unpredictable external forces and changes in environmental properties tend to alter
it. (Powers)

Regulation and control
are intimately related. (Ashby, Introduction to
Cybernetics).

Oxford ** Dictionary:**

Control1: the fact of
controlling, or of checking and directing action; domination, command, sway.

Control 2: Restraint, check

Control 3: A method or
means of restraint

Control 4: to call to
account

Control 5: to overpower;
dominate

In most dictionary terms
controlling seems to have a stopping or checking or regulating or dominating meaning
in both the noun and verb forms.

Now reading the main definition
from BCP Control is clearly achieving or maintaining
(in this case a perceptual state).

In the definition provided
by Bjorn it has the normal meaning (ie checking or
stopping, regulating, dominate).

This is a verbal cocoon clearly
the meaning of both controls are not entirely the same thing, that is the inference
levels are different.

They may be subtle differences
but they have enormous consequences for communication of the subtleties of PCT.

There is nothing wrong
with the definition give by Bjorn, but it’s not at
the same inference level as control in PCT.

This is not my interpretation
of the language this is what the language is saying.

Regards

Gavin

···
2

[Martin Taylor 2010.12.09.18.26]

(Gavin Ritz 2010.12.09.20.12NZT)

          A is said to control

B if, for every disturbing
influence acting on B, A generates
an action that tends strongly to counteract the effect of
the disturbing
influence on B.(Bjorn’s statement)

          Here

are some definitions
of control from PCT books and from other sources

** Achievement
and maintenance of a pre-selected perceptual state in
the controlling system** , through
actions on the environment that also cancel out the
effects of disturbances. (Powers)

Same as quote.

          If

a person is to control
something, the person has to be able to affect whatever is
to be controlled. (Powers)

Implementation of quote.

          Controlling

means
producing repeatable consequences by variable actions.
(Powers)

Implementation of quote.

          Perception

tells us of
the current status of whatever it is we are trying to
control. (Powers)

Here Powers talks about "trying to control" something that is not

perception, and points out that perception is the only thing we can
control.

          To

control something is
to act to bring it to a specified condition and then maintain it
close to that condition and then ** maintain** that
condition even if
unpredictable external forces and changes in environmental
properties tend to alter
it. (Powers)

Same as quote.

          Regulation

and control
are intim ately related. (Ashby, Introduction to
Cybernetics).

Not at all clear what Ashby meant by "regulation". Or, for that

matter, by “control”. The Powers definition, as quoted by Bjorn, is
the same as the normal engineering definition, but did Ashby mean
that or was he referring to the need for force when he mentioned
“control”?

Oxford ** Dictionary:**

          Control1:

the fact of
controlling, or of checking and directing action;
domination, command, sway.

          Control

2: Restraint, check

          Control

3: A method or
means of restraint

          Control

4: to call to
account

          Control

5: to overpower;
dominate

          In

most dictionary terms
controlling seems to have a stopping or checking or
regulating or dominating meaning
in both the noun and verb forms.

Yes, in everyday language, most words (taken as letter strings) have

several different usages with a common core. It is almost always
true that a word used in a technical sense has a meaning more
closely defined than the variety of meanings of the word in everyday
usage. “Perception” is a word of which this is particularly true.
“Control” is another. In PCT, control has no sense of dominating,
stopping, or checking. It means just what is stated in Bjorn’s
quote.

          Now

reading the main definition
from BCP Control is clearly achieving or maintaining
(in this case a perceptual state).

          In

the definition provided
by Bjorn it has the normal meaning (ie checking or
stopping, regulating, dominate).

The definition provided by Bjorn is exactly achieving or maintaining

the perceptual state, as it states explicitly.

          This

is a verbal cocoon clearly
the meaning of both controls are not entirely the same
thing, that is the inference
levels are different.

They are the same.

          They

may be subtle differences
but they have enormous consequences for communication of
the subtleties of PCT.

          There

is nothing wrong
with the definition give by Bjorn ,
but it’s not at
the same inference level as control in PCT.

It is exactly control in PCT.

          This

is not my interpretation
of the language this is what the language is saying.

It is your interpretation, and yours alone. "The language" doesn't

say anything. The writer hoped the reader would make some particular
interpretation. But the reader makes the interpretation, which often
is not what the writer intended.

Martin
···

On 2010/12/9 5:51 PM, Gavin Ritz wrote:

3

( Gavin
Ritz 2010.10.13…3NZT)

[Martin Taylor 2010.12.09.18.26]

(Gavin
Ritz 2010.12.09.20.12NZT)

Hi there Martin

I accept your position on
this but do not agree with it.

Mine is not superior to
yours and yours to mine, they are just very different angles.

Best leave it at that.

Regards

Gavin

···