[From Dag Forssell (940414 1700)] Rick Marken (940414.1245)]
I have no idea what "unfounded accusations" I made. It would be
much easier for me to deal with this if you told me what
accusations I made that were unfounded and why they were
unfounded. Then I could see how I retracted them and why that was
a good idea.
You made it clear enough to me that both Ed and I aim to do the
bidding of oppressive teachers, jailers and bosses, by teaching
them how to oppress more effectively. I found that offensive,
given my value system. You know better, but try to disturb us into
debate. Following my protests, you have stated quite correctly, as
I see it, that we only teach PCT, and that both the opressors and
the opressed will be better off for learning it.
If you respected me as a control system, you would presume my
"tactlessness" was an accident, you would understand that I was
trying to control for standards that might be wrong from your
perspective but are legitimate, and you would deal with me by
helping me understand the error of my ways.
Ordinarily, I would and do. But I raise my voice along with others
on this net, when you argue for your inalienable right to say
anything that comes into your head about anything and anybody, and
claim that you can't help any of it one bit. How can any of us
presume your "tactlessness" to be accidental, when you are so proud
of it, advertise it, defend it, and promise to maximize it in the
future. I will certainly grant you that I have been tactless too in
the last few posts. I am not proud of it. Did you like it?
All I ask (in term's of respect) is cooperation to help us find
Fine, that is what we work on most of the time.
I can't ask you not to insult me -- there is no way you could
possibly know what an insult to me might be; I'm controlling my
perceptions, not you.
Yes, you can. I knew I insulted you, and you know it too. I
denigraded your personal experience. I have no business doing
that, and I have no business *telling* you, directly or indirectly,
what your (no good) intentions are, anymore than I accept that from
All you have to do is respect the fact that I am controlling and
see if we can work out cooperative ways to control in the same
environment. In order to do that, we have to try to figure out
what we are controlling for; where the conflicts lie, etc.
I don't want you to have to pussy foot around, trying not to
disturb every damn thing I'm controlling, most of which you could
not possibly even know about.
I am not concerned about pussy footing or insults as long as we
stick to PCT, what PCT is, how to present it and all that. I think
we both know that people control any number of other perceptions in
areas of self, religion, and many more. To discuss how these are
explained by PCT is fair game. To make fun of people because of
their systems concepts, no matter how misguided they seem to you
and me, is not, it seems to me.
How can I ask you to do that? If I said I was insulted by you and
you didn't think what you did should have insulted me, wouldn't
you be insulted by my suggestion?
I don't think so. I would wonder about it, then change my
understanding and stay clear. If it concerned PCT, I would ask for
clarification, and even argue, as we have.
The only respect I (or anyone else, for that matter) can ask for
(and get) is understanding -- for you to try to respect my
controlling as legitimate, not a personal affront to you; and, of
course, I take your controlling in the same spirit. We'll work it
out; don't worry. I do respect you -- in MY way.
If I was that worried, I would have stuck my tail between the legs
and run. This is better in the short and long run. Right or
wrong, I am becoming confident in my understanding of PCT, and am
willing to stick up for it.
I don't believe anybody can be respectful to anyone else in yours
(not to be disrespectful about it).
I can't make enough sense of this, given my imagination. I trust
it made sense to you, given yours.
Given my attention to imagination in the last several days, ever
since I addressed it in response to your comment about choosing
perceptions, I am more impressed than ever with the subjectiveness
of interpretation of most everything, posts on this net very much
included. How we interpret depends a great deal on stored
perceptions, used to de-code the words and phrases to give them