CSG Web presence

[From Bruce Abbott (2004.09.19.0810 EST)]

Martin Taylor 2004.09.18.21.25 --

To all interested in PCT: I note Bruce Abbott's mention [2004.09.18.1030 EST]
" Plans were laid to create a new, more comprehensive and active CSG website".
ECACS (www.ecacs.net) could readily form part of such a site. It was
intended as a discussion forum -- meaning that technical threads can
easily be revisited after long periods of dormancy -- and as a place for
developing archival documents about PCT. I strongly recommend that any PCT
Web site include the forum concept. Members of the ECACS forum can choose
to see new messages in their e-mail if they want, but must visit the Web
site to post new messages.

Marc referred to "monitoring" the ECACS site. What he means is that the
forum contains an area reserved for personal references and flame wars,
called the "Roughneck Rooms". All, and the administrators (Jim Beardsley
and I) meant ALL, potentially insulting personal comment was supposed to
be done there, not in the technical areas of the forum.

I think it is possible in a forum to eliminate -- or to substantially
reduce -- the damage to technical discussion caused by persistent personal
attacks, in a way that is impossible in e-mail discussion. The solution is
to enforce the "Roughneck Room" rule. Someone whose interest is in
disrupting the technical discussion will eventually get frustrated and
leave (with luck), but whether he does or not, the archive of the
technical discussion can remain in a condition open to serious
continuation. However, to do this requires that there be a monitor.

Thanks, Martin, for your description of the ECACS discussion forum and its
approach to dealing with "roughnecks." As you note, it does require a
monitor. My own thinking was that by posting a small set of unambiguous,
agreed-upon rules of decorum and asking CSGnet posters to adopt these as
reference values, everyone would know exactly what the reference values are
and would agree to them as a condition of participation. Whether everyone
would cooperate, I don't know, but at least everyone would be aware of what
is expected of them.

ECACS means "Exploration of Complex Adapting Control Systems". The hope
was that the forum format with the (as yet empty) archives would enable
more serious discussion and development of theory, modelling, and actual
application, than is readily done through e-mail. It's a slightly
different focus than is the case of CSGnet, though many of the CSGnet
threads would fit quite well in ECACS. It would be nice if in some way it
could be closely linked with the new CSG web site.

Fred Good is overseeing the CSG website project; you might want to contact
him about including ECACS on the site.

In a message a few weeks ago, I suggested that the Wiki format (see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page&gt;\) would be a wonderful component
of the CSG Web presence. Has that been given consideration?

Sorry, I must have missed that message, but did just now take a look at the
site. It is organized around developing an on-line encyclopedia via
collaborative forum submissions. How would you envision this format being
applied on the CSG site?

Bruce A.

[From Bruce Abbott (2004.09.19.0810 EST)]

Martin Taylor 2004.09.18.21.25 --

Fred Good is overseeing the CSG website project; you might want to contact
him about including ECACS on the site.

OK. In case he doesn't read CSGnet, I'm adding him as a CC to this message.

In a message a few weeks ago, I suggested that the Wiki format (see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page&gt;\) would be a wonderful component
of the CSG Web presence. Has that been given consideration?

Sorry, I must have missed that message, but did just now take a look at the
site. It is organized around developing an on-line encyclopedia via
collaborative forum submissions. How would you envision this format being
applied on the CSG site?

As I understand Wikipedia, the idea is that anyone can write an
article on any relevant topic, and it's very easy to link the article
to others in the Wiki at the time of writing (or to external
references). Once an article has been written, anyone else can edit
it -- or revert it to a prior form if they think an edit was
incorrect or inappropriate. In other words, it's democratic. There is
provision for policing, however, if it seems that an article (or a
person) is clearly not within the general guidelines of the Wiki,
either in theme or in manner.

The Wiki software is open source, and in fact there are a variety of
instantiations accessible through the Wikimedia portal. It might
seem, though, that this open system is not just open, but is open to
abuse. Apparently this hardly happens in the big Wikipedia. For links
to discussions of methods and philosophies (and for setting up a Wiki
and linking it into the big Wikipedia) see
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Community_Portal&gt;\. The
objective of the Wikipedia project is not for developing ideas, but
to set down what is known -- or at least ordinarily believed -- about
any topic whatever. It's not a substitute for ongoing discussion
(though the opportunity for that exists within the Wikipedia).

In my vision, there's a hierarchy of time scales. Stable
understandings are appropriate for a Wiki, formal discussions leading
to invention or discovery belong in a forum, and more fluid
intereactions whose impact fades over weeks are appropriate for an
e-mail list. Useable simulations, models, and such, seem to belong in
an archive accessible from all three other media.

An alternative procedure might simply be for those in CSG who feel
able to do so, to write PCT articles in the Wikipedia project (it's
supposed to evolve into a universal authoritative knowledge base).

Incidentally, if you search for "PCT" in Wikipedia, you find three
different meanings of the acronym, none of which relate to Perceptual
Control Theory. There are a million different articles on Wikipedia
as of tomorrow, there's lots of content into which you can link if
you want to write in the main Wikipedia, which you can do, whether or
not we devise a CSG Wiki.

Martin