CSG2002 Textbook plans

CSGnet Archive CSG2001
1

[From Dick Robertson, 2001.11.30.1050CST]

Bruce Nevin wrote:

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.28 22:50 EST)]

Bill Powers (2001.11.28.2006 MST)--

>Excellent thought! I've been sort of stymied, but maybe this will get me
>started again in working up materials for Dick's book. I know Dick would
>like to move faster, but I really haven't had any worthy thoughts about how
>to do what he wants. Focusing on a workshop-style meeting could help a lot.

And that is good news!

Dick, you wanted something more elementary and accessible than what we're
talking about now, but if you have simpler stuff in the text itself, and
more advanced exercises and tutorials in an associated workbook, mightn't
that work well? A lot more students these days are learning programming
skills than when we were in school!

Bruce,

Yes, I would like to hear from any of our members who are teaching general psych
or social science about the programming level of their students.

Thanks for thinking about the textbook. I confess I had been thinking about
giving up the project because of the underwhelming support I have received so
far. Although, I do have one excellent complete applied chapter from Tim Carey
and a few other tentative promises.

I am still liking my idea of approaching programming-unsophisticated psychology
and social science students with elementary programs like Rick's ecoli to start
with, showing how it was constructed from idea to algorithm to code, leaving no
steps out so the student get his first experience simply by copying. Rick
doesn't want to modify the ecoli himself and hasn't responded to my request to
give me the code, so I have started slowly to relearn programming myself and
hope he won't object if I redo it. As for the idea of including some kind of
workshop for modeling and programing as part of the text, or the course, that
sounds like a great idea.

I liked Lloyd's suggestion last summer to think of doing the text in modular
form, putting out each part as they get finished, and that leads me to the idea
of broadening it into a course. The first part would be very brief, basic PCT,
then hands-on experience in modeling along the lines I have been talking about.
This reverses the way we've always done it before--giving the theory and
following with demos. Module one would give the theory in connection with the
demos. I think Module 2 should be Making Sense, and in Module 3 the behavioral
findings that have come from PCT and the reinterpretations of traditional
questions in PCT terms and inspiration for future research.

Best, Dick R.

···

At 08:10 PM 11/28/2001 -0700, Bill Powers wrote:

2

[From Samuel Saunders (2001.11.29 1500 MST)]

Dick Robertson (2001.11.30.1050CST)-

[From Dick Robertson, 2001.11.30.1050CST]

Bruce Nevin wrote:

> [From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.28 22:50 EST)]
>
> Bill Powers (2001.11.28.2006 MST)--
>
> >Excellent thought! I've been sort of stymied, but maybe this will get me
> >started again in working up materials for Dick's book. I know Dick would
> >like to move faster, but I really haven't had any worthy thoughts about how
> >to do what he wants. Focusing on a workshop-style meeting could help a lot.
>
> And that is good news!
>
> Dick, you wanted something more elementary and accessible than what we're
> talking about now, but if you have simpler stuff in the text itself, and
> more advanced exercises and tutorials in an associated workbook, mightn't
> that work well? A lot more students these days are learning programming
> skills than when we were in school!

Bruce,

Yes, I would like to hear from any of our members who are teaching general psych
or social science about the programming level of their students.

Thanks for thinking about the textbook. I confess I had been thinking about
giving up the project because of the underwhelming support I have received so
far. Although, I do have one excellent complete applied chapter from Tim Carey
and a few other tentative promises.

I am still liking my idea of approaching programming-unsophisticated psychology
and social science students with elementary programs like Rick's ecoli to start
with, showing how it was constructed from idea to algorithm to code, leaving no
steps out so the student get his first experience simply by copying. Rick
doesn't want to modify the ecoli himself and hasn't responded to my request to
give me the code, so I have started slowly to relearn programming myself and
hope he won't object if I redo it. As for the idea of including some kind of
workshop for modeling and programing as part of the text, or the course, that
sounds like a great idea.

I liked Lloyd's suggestion last summer to think of doing the text in modular
form, putting out each part as they get finished, and that leads me to the idea
of broadening it into a course. The first part would be very brief, basic PCT,
then hands-on experience in modeling along the lines I have been talking about.
This reverses the way we've always done it before--giving the theory and
following with demos. Module one would give the theory in connection with the
demos. I think Module 2 should be Making Sense, and in Module 3 the behavioral
findings that have come from PCT and the reinterpretations of traditional
questions in PCT terms and inspiration for future research.

Best, Dick R.

I am in the last week of a general psych class using IMP as the text. I
used demos almost every week. For the most part, I used Rick Marken's JAVA
demos, with a few of Bill Power's demos and one of my own. The students ran
the demos then wrote analysis papers on each demo. The demos were
effective, and the analyses improved substantially over the semester. The
students would not have been able to handle programming in addition to the
other work for the course. I had one IT tutor and two math tutors among the
students, but none of them had time to do any programming, and most of the
other students didn't have enough programming experience to have done
anything. The course was demanding enough that teaching programming along
with PCT would have been too much.

Programming exercises would be usefull with my special topics and research
students, but not general psych.

Samuel

···

On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:52:33AM -0600, Richard Robertson wrote:

> At 08:10 PM 11/28/2001 -0700, Bill Powers wrote:

--
Samuel Spence Saunders, Ph.D.
saunders@gwtc.net
ssaunders@olc.edu

3

[From Dick Robertson,2001.12.03.0955CST]

Samuel Spence Saunders wrote:

[From Samuel Saunders (2001.11.29 1500 MST)]

Dick Robertson (2001.11.30.1050CST)-
> [From Dick Robertson, 2001.11.30.1050CST]
>
>
> I liked Lloyd's suggestion last summer to think of doing the text in modular
> form, putting out each part as they get finished, and that leads me to the idea
> of broadening it into a course. The first part would be very brief, basic PCT,
> then hands-on experience in modeling along the lines I have been talking about.
> This reverses the way we've always done it before--giving the theory and
> following with demos. Module one would give the theory in connection with the
> demos. I think Module 2 should be Making Sense, and in Module 3 the behavioral
> findings that have come from PCT and the reinterpretations of traditional
> questions in PCT terms and inspiration for future research.
>
> Best, Dick R.

I am in the last week of a general psych class using IMP as the text. I
used demos almost every week. For the most part, I used Rick Marken's JAVA
demos, with a few of Bill Power's demos and one of my own. The students ran
the demos then wrote analysis papers on each demo. The demos were
effective, and the analyses improved substantially over the semester. The
students would not have been able to handle programming in addition to the
other work for the course. I had one IT tutor and two math tutors among the
students, but none of them had time to do any programming, and most of the
other students didn't have enough programming experience to have done
anything. The course was demanding enough that teaching programming along
with PCT would have been too much.

Programming exercises would be usefull with my special topics and research
students, but not general psych.

Samuel

Samuel,

I was thrilled to get your message. It sounds as though you have the most relevant
experience for striking the right level for an intro PCT psych/social Psy course. As
you might have noticed I am now thinking of expanding the text into a course with
several modules. Your experience of fitting the demos to the right places in the
modules sounds like it would be invaluable. Also I recall that you were interested in
doing a chapter in the general psych area for it. Am I right?

Best, Dick R.

···

On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:52:33AM -0600, Richard Robertson wrote:

--
Samuel Spence Saunders, Ph.D.
saunders@gwtc.net
ssaunders@olc.edu

4

[From Samuel Saunders (2001.12.03 11:50 MST)}

[From Dick Robertson,2001.12.03.0955CST]

Samuel Spence Saunders wrote:

> [From Samuel Saunders (2001.11.29 1500 MST)]
>
> Dick Robertson (2001.11.30.1050CST)-
> > [From Dick Robertson, 2001.11.30.1050CST]
> >
> >
> > I liked Lloyd's suggestion last summer to think of doing the text in modular
> > form, putting out each part as they get finished, and that leads me to the idea
> > of broadening it into a course. The first part would be very brief, basic PCT,
> > then hands-on experience in modeling along the lines I have been talking about.
> > This reverses the way we've always done it before--giving the theory and
> > following with demos. Module one would give the theory in connection with the
> > demos. I think Module 2 should be Making Sense, and in Module 3 the behavioral
> > findings that have come from PCT and the reinterpretations of traditional
> > questions in PCT terms and inspiration for future research.
> >
> > Best, Dick R.
>
> I am in the last week of a general psych class using IMP as the text. I
> used demos almost every week. For the most part, I used Rick Marken's JAVA
> demos, with a few of Bill Power's demos and one of my own. The students ran
> the demos then wrote analysis papers on each demo. The demos were
> effective, and the analyses improved substantially over the semester. The
> students would not have been able to handle programming in addition to the
> other work for the course. I had one IT tutor and two math tutors among the
> students, but none of them had time to do any programming, and most of the
> other students didn't have enough programming experience to have done
> anything. The course was demanding enough that teaching programming along
> with PCT would have been too much.
>
> Programming exercises would be usefull with my special topics and research
> students, but not general psych.
>
> Samuel

Samuel,

I was thrilled to get your message. It sounds as though you have the most relevant
experience for striking the right level for an intro PCT psych/social Psy course. As
you might have noticed I am now thinking of expanding the text into a course with
several modules. Your experience of fitting the demos to the right places in the
modules sounds like it would be invaluable. Also I recall that you were interested in
doing a chapter in the general psych area for it. Am I right?

Best, Dick R.

>
> --
> Samuel Spence Saunders, Ph.D.
> saunders@gwtc.net
> ssaunders@olc.edu

T think the idea of modules is a good idea. I will be glad to help as I can.
You are correct about the chapter; I hoope to have some time for serious
work over the break between semesters. As you may recall, I also suggested
packaging some of the modules for some of the web course presentation
packages (we have WebCT, but blackboard is also popular, and there are
others). I have asked for student critiques of the text and the course, and
I hope I will have some of those in the next two weeks.

Samuel

···

On Mon, Dec 03, 2001 at 10:03:56AM -0600, Richard Robertson wrote:

> On Fri, Nov 30, 2001 at 10:52:33AM -0600, Richard Robertson wrote:

--
Samuel Spence Saunders, Ph.D. | If man chooses oblivion, he can go right
saunders@gwtc.net | on leaving his fate to political leaders.
ssaunders@olc.edu | If he chooses Utopia, he must initiate an
                                > enormous educational campaign-immediately
                                > R. Buckminster Fuller