CSG2002

CSGnet Archive CSG2001
1

A summary of findings:

Chapel Hill -- Aqueduct Conference Center (Fred Good)

···

-----------------------------------------
- Cost: Total about $100/person/night (down from $114) = $400/person
   This is complete package cost, incl. meals, conf. rooms, A/V equipment, etc.
- Availability: Monday, July 22 to Sunday, July 28, 2002.
- Rooms: two-person bedrooms with bath, up to 36 people.
- Food: See Description.
- Meetings: See Description.
- Transportation:
   Airport is a half hour away. Fred can arrange transportation.
   Ten minutes from downtown Chapel Hill.
- Description:
A full service conference center, meaning that it is a package deal which includes meeting rooms, meals, audio visual equipment, coffee, snacks.
Website: www.Aqueduct.citysearch.com.

Chapel Hill Student housing (Fred Good) [Not available? see note below.]
---------------------------------------
"housing in student rooms and finding a place reasonably close to have meetings is proving to be difficult to obtain. I don't think that it will be much cheaper."

- Availability: TBD, will ask person returning week of 8/13
- Rooms: Each room shares a bathroom with one other room.
- Room cost: $36.75/person/night double; $49.00/person/night single,
         plus meals. May go up some next year.
- Food cost: Meals are $5. $6 and $7, breakfast, lunch and dinner.
- Meetings: possible meeting rooms within walking distance on campus, TBD.
- Transportation: See Aqueduct Conference Center
- Description:

Note 9/12/01: I [Bill] just received an answer to my letter
requesting space in the church near student housing for the
CSG meeting. Our request for space was rejected. I've explored
other options, but nothing seems to be working out. Aqueduct
appears to be the best option in this part of the world.
But folk may not be prepared to pay around $100 per day
(everything included), which is what I think I can talk them down to.

Kansas City (Bill Williams)
---------------------------
University requires more numbers than CSG and the "pre-conference" could generate.

The Salvation Army facility is very cheap-- they have a "group special" for 2 nights with five meals at $54. there price schedule is very complicated, but the price level is roughly comparable. But, the sleeping accomodations are bunk type dorms. No drinking. Practically no phone service, no inter-net. The facility has an opening for the CSG dates.

I wouldn't mind having the meeting there myself, but I doubt very much whether it would match many people's expectations. It's called Mokan Camp. And, from all sounds its the next thing to bringing a tent.

I [Bill] wouldn't recommend it.

Vancouver (Autumn Winter)
-------------------------
UBC at Vancouver has so many accommodation options that it is quite complex.
Single rooms with shared bath would be around $40 per night.
People would be responsible for their own food.
Other conference costs would be around $30 per day.
  (rooms, equipment, coffee breaks, CSG fees etc.)

Las Vegas
---------
Someone was going to look into this?

2

i.kurtzer (2001.11.26.1100)

Vancouver or Chapel Hill?
Its a tough one but I'd vote for Chapel Hill. The main problem is how hot
Chapel Hill can be in the summer.

i.

3

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.26 10:20 EST)]

Decision time. Why not wait until next April or May? The sooner we settle a time and place, the better our attendance. In particular, Lloyd wants to get information out to IAACT members.

Candidates locations are

Chapel Hill $400/person total ($100/day).
Vancouver $400/person estimate ($70/day plus food variable).

Details repeated below.

Please discuss and make your wishes known. If there is no discussion I will make an executive decision by the end of the month.

         Bruce Nevin

···

At 09:36 PM 9/12/2001 -0400, Bruce Nevin wrote:

A summary of findings:

Chapel Hill -- Aqueduct Conference Center (Fred Good)
-----------------------------------------
- Cost: Total about $100/person/night (down from $114) = $400/person
  This is complete package cost, incl. meals, conf. rooms, A/V equipment, etc.
- Availability: Monday, July 22 to Sunday, July 28, 2002.
- Rooms: two-person bedrooms with bath, up to 36 people.
- Food: See Description.
- Meetings: See Description.
- Transportation:
  Airport is a half hour away. Fred can arrange transportation.
  Ten minutes from downtown Chapel Hill.
- Description:
A full service conference center, meaning that it is a package deal which includes meeting rooms, meals, audio visual equipment, coffee, snacks.
Website: www.Aqueduct.citysearch.com.

Chapel Hill Student housing (Fred Good) [Not available? see note below.]
---------------------------------------
"housing in student rooms and finding a place reasonably close to have meetings is proving to be difficult to obtain. I don't think that it will be much cheaper."

- Availability: TBD, will ask person returning week of 8/13
- Rooms: Each room shares a bathroom with one other room.
- Room cost: $36.75/person/night double; $49.00/person/night single,
        plus meals. May go up some next year.
- Food cost: Meals are $5. $6 and $7, breakfast, lunch and dinner.
- Meetings: possible meeting rooms within walking distance on campus, TBD.
- Transportation: See Aqueduct Conference Center
- Description:

Note 9/12/01: I [Bill] just received an answer to my letter
requesting space in the church near student housing for the
CSG meeting. Our request for space was rejected. I've explored
other options, but nothing seems to be working out. Aqueduct
appears to be the best option in this part of the world.
But folk may not be prepared to pay around $100 per day
(everything included), which is what I think I can talk them down to.

Kansas City (Bill Williams)
---------------------------
University requires more numbers than CSG and the "pre-conference" could generate.

The Salvation Army facility is very cheap-- they have a "group special" for 2 nights with five meals at $54. there price schedule is very complicated, but the price level is roughly comparable. But, the sleeping accomodations are bunk type dorms. No drinking. Practically no phone service, no inter-net. The facility has an opening for the CSG dates.

I wouldn't mind having the meeting there myself, but I doubt very much whether it would match many people's expectations. It's called Mokan Camp. And, from all sounds its the next thing to bringing a tent.

I [Bill] wouldn't recommend it.

Vancouver (Autumn Winter)
-------------------------
UBC at Vancouver has so many accommodation options that it is quite complex.
Single rooms with shared bath would be around $40 per night.
People would be responsible for their own food.
Other conference costs would be around $30 per day.
        (rooms, equipment, coffee breaks, CSG fees etc.)

Las Vegas
---------
Someone was going to look into this?

4

Bruce

I'll vote for Vancouver.

Bill Williams

···

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.26 10:20 EST)]

Decision time. Why not wait until next April or May? The sooner we settle a
time and place, the better our attendance. In particular, Lloyd wants to
get information out to IAACT members.

Candidates locations are

Chapel Hill $400/person total ($100/day).
Vancouver $400/person estimate ($70/day plus food variable).

Details repeated below.

Please discuss and make your wishes known. If there is no discussion I will
make an executive decision by the end of the month.

         Bruce Nevin

At 09:36 PM 9/12/2001 -0400, Bruce Nevin wrote:
>A summary of findings:
>
>Chapel Hill -- Aqueduct Conference Center (Fred Good)
>-----------------------------------------
>- Cost: Total about $100/person/night (down from $114) = $400/person
> This is complete package cost, incl. meals, conf. rooms, A/V equipment,
> etc.
>- Availability: Monday, July 22 to Sunday, July 28, 2002.
>- Rooms: two-person bedrooms with bath, up to 36 people.
>- Food: See Description.
>- Meetings: See Description.
>- Transportation:
> Airport is a half hour away. Fred can arrange transportation.
> Ten minutes from downtown Chapel Hill.
>- Description:
>A full service conference center, meaning that it is a package deal which
>includes meeting rooms, meals, audio visual equipment, coffee, snacks.
>Website: www.Aqueduct.citysearch.com.
>
>Chapel Hill Student housing (Fred Good) [Not available? see note below.]
>---------------------------------------
>"housing in student rooms and finding a place reasonably close to have
>meetings is proving to be difficult to obtain. I don't think that it will
>be much cheaper."
>
>- Availability: TBD, will ask person returning week of 8/13
>- Rooms: Each room shares a bathroom with one other room.
>- Room cost: $36.75/person/night double; $49.00/person/night single,
> plus meals. May go up some next year.
>- Food cost: Meals are $5. $6 and $7, breakfast, lunch and dinner.
>- Meetings: possible meeting rooms within walking distance on campus, TBD.
>- Transportation: See Aqueduct Conference Center
>- Description:
>
>Note 9/12/01: I [Bill] just received an answer to my letter
>requesting space in the church near student housing for the
>CSG meeting. Our request for space was rejected. I've explored
>other options, but nothing seems to be working out. Aqueduct
>appears to be the best option in this part of the world.
>But folk may not be prepared to pay around $100 per day
>(everything included), which is what I think I can talk them down to.
>
>
>Kansas City (Bill Williams)
>---------------------------
>University requires more numbers than CSG and the "pre-conference" could
>generate.
>
>The Salvation Army facility is very cheap-- they have a "group special"
>for 2 nights with five meals at $54. there price schedule is very
>complicated, but the price level is roughly comparable. But, the sleeping
>accomodations are bunk type dorms. No drinking. Practically no phone
>service, no inter-net. The facility has an opening for the CSG dates.
>
>I wouldn't mind having the meeting there myself, but I doubt very much
>whether it would match many people's expectations. It's called Mokan
>Camp. And, from all sounds its the next thing to bringing a tent.
>
>I [Bill] wouldn't recommend it.
>
>Vancouver (Autumn Winter)
>-------------------------
>UBC at Vancouver has so many accommodation options that it is quite complex.
>Single rooms with shared bath would be around $40 per night.
>People would be responsible for their own food.
>Other conference costs would be around $30 per day.
> (rooms, equipment, coffee breaks, CSG fees etc.)
>
>Las Vegas
>---------
>Someone was going to look into this?
>

______________________________________________________________________
Do you want a free e-mail for life ? Get it at http://www.email.ro/

5

[Chuck Tucker 11/12/01]

My bias is for Chapel Hill because of distance, cost, weather (not as warm as
SC) and resources (a great university).

Regards,
              Chuck

In a message dated 11/26/2001 1:00:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
w.d.williams@EMAIL.RO writes:

<< > Chapel Hill $400/person total ($100/day).

···

Vancouver $400/person estimate ($70/day plus food variable).

> >>

6

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.26 17:23 PST)]

Since discussion has started I should state my own preferences.

I prefer Chapel Hill because

o We need a good venue on the east coast corresponding to Vancouver on the west coast (though N/S may also prove relevant in future).

o Fred has done excellent spadework that presumably would be valid next year but I still harbor a sense of not wanting it to go to waste.

o Anything that encourages Chuck to attend is a Good Thing.

I have some purely selfish reasons too that presumably will not be persuasive to anyone but me, but I suppose I should disclose them. I could visit a dear friend in Charlottesville before or after, and of course it's less travel for me.

Thinking about weather, I remember being told that it was deathly hot in St. Louis the week before we were there and we lucked out. Maybe we'll be as lucky in North Carolina. You can look at conditions in past summers at
http://www.wunderground.com/US/NC/Chapel_Hill.html
Scroll down to the 'Historical Conditions' box and select a date. On August 26 this year, the mean temperature was about 74F (86F high, 65F low).

  Bruce Nevin

7

[from Autumn Winter (20 NOV 2001) ]

Chapel Hill is my choice if LasVegas is not being considered.

8

[From Bob Summer (2001.11.27 742EST)]

Chapel Hill is the best choice for me.

9

[from Bruce Nevin (11.27.2001 12:35 EST) ]

···

At 08:13 PM 11/26/2001 -0800, Autumn Winter wrote:

[from Autumn Winter (20 NOV 2001) ]

Chapel Hill is my choice if LasVegas is not being considered.

No one ever got arrangement details about Las Vegas so we have not been able to consider it.

         Bruce Nevin

10

Love Vancouver but prefer Chapel Hill for a change and for this 2002
meeting.

Thanks.

Bruce Nevin wrote:

··· 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
LLOYD KLINEDINST - BARBARA A. BOLLMANN
10 DOVER LANE - VILLA RIDGE, MO 63089-2001
HomeVoice: (636) 742-4039 - FAX: (636) 742-4039
Lloyd Mobile: (314)-609-5571 - Bobbie Mobile: (314)-799-3323
email: website: email: website:

lloydk@klinedinst.comhttp://www.klinedinst.combbollmann@bbollmann.comhttp://www.bbollmann.com

11

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.28 10:39 EST)]

If there is no objection, I will declare the trend toward Chapel Hill to be a decision.

The dates will be Wednesday, July 24 through Saturday, July 27 2002.

Fred, when you have travel directions etc. we can think about putting up a web page. Who is the webmaster at http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/csg/ now, Gary? And Lloyd you put up a very useful page for IAACT folks.

We talked a bit about tutorials in modelling. Maybe we could take something like Bill's squaring the circle program, go through its modular structure, see the effect of tweaking it here and there. Everyone who is interested bring a laptop, install an agreed on compiler, and be prepared to write some code. We could have some tutorial sessions with Vensim and with spreadsheets as well.

  Bruce Nevin

12

[From Bill Powers (2001.11.28.1501 MDT)]

Bruce Nevin (2001.11.28 10:39 EST)--

If there is no objection, I will declare the trend toward Chapel Hill to be
a decision.

Roger. Mary and I will be there.
...

We talked a bit about tutorials in modelling. Maybe we could take something
like Bill's squaring the circle program, go through its modular structure,
see the effect of tweaking it here and there. Everyone who is interested
bring a laptop, install an agreed on compiler, and be prepared to write
some code. We could have some tutorial sessions with Vensim and with
spreadsheets as well.

Excellent ideas, with which I will cooperate. Rick Marken, I'm sure, will
help with spreadsheet simulations. The Vensim sessions will probably help
the most, since we don't have a working SIMPCT from Wolfgang, and are not
likely to have one soon (he is suffering from a neurological disorder that
is painful and disabling but, I am glad to say, not life-threatening ). A
quite usable version of Vensim, called Vensim PLE, is available for
download free. Just do a Google search on "Vensim PLE". I will see about
reviving an older version of Wolfgang's simulator.

Turbo Pascal 7.0 can still be purchased but is no longer supported. In
other words, you have to pay for it, but if there's anything wrong with it,
too bad. The Delphi 6.0 personal edition is available for free download --
I suggest downloading and installing the download manager GetRight before
trying to download the many, many megabytes (around 150) of Delphi. I think
we can use Delphi becaused it's pretty easy to write and run simple
programs. With GetRight, you can resume broken downloads instead of having
to start over.

I don't know how we create a consensus on the software to use. Any
suggestions, comments, wise advice from anyone?

Best,

Bill P.

13

[ from Autumn Winter (2001.11.28 4:00pm)]

I really like the idea of the conference focusing on modeling. It would be
great to be able to run a lot of the demos under Windows. It makes sense to
me to use Delphi. If people have a little bit of extra cash, they can get
the professional education version for $99.

14

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.28 19:18 EST)]

Bill Powers (2001.11.28.1501 MDT)--
[I see you're still on daylight savings time.]
>I don't know how we create a consensus on the software to use. Any
>suggestions, comments, wise advice from anyone?

I'm fine with yours.

  Excel
  Vensim
  SIMPCT (older version) if resuscitable
  Delphi 6.0 personal edition (Pascal)

A good array of tools! Which we use, and how much we use each, depends upon people proposing workshops, putting together workshop materials, and letting the rest of us know about them in such a way that we go get the required tools and sign up. Could we create a spot on the web site for workshop descriptions?

It's to be hoped that these workshops would feed into Dick's intro text book, or perhaps a programming workbook associated with it.

  Bruce Nevin

···

At 03:32 PM 11/28/2001 -0700, Bill Powers wrote:

15

[From Bill Powers (2001.11.28.2006 MST)]

Bruce Nevin (2001.11.28 19:18 EST)--

       Excel
       Vensim
       SIMPCT (older version) if resuscitable
       Delphi 6.0 personal edition (Pascal)

...

It's to be hoped that these workshops would feed into Dick's intro text
book, or perhaps a programming workbook associated with it.

Excellent thought! I've been sort of stymied, but maybe this will get me
started again in working up materials for Dick's book. I know Dick would
like to move faster, but I really haven't had any worthy thoughts about how
to do what he wants. Focusing on a workshop-style meeting could help a lot.

Best,

Bill P.

16

[From Bruce Nevin (2001.11.28 22:50 EST)]

Bill Powers (2001.11.28.2006 MST)--

Excellent thought! I've been sort of stymied, but maybe this will get me
started again in working up materials for Dick's book. I know Dick would
like to move faster, but I really haven't had any worthy thoughts about how
to do what he wants. Focusing on a workshop-style meeting could help a lot.

And that is good news!

Dick, you wanted something more elementary and accessible than what we're talking about now, but if you have simpler stuff in the text itself, and more advanced exercises and tutorials in an associated workbook, mightn't that work well? A lot more students these days are learning programming skills than when we were in school!

         Bruce

···

At 08:10 PM 11/28/2001 -0700, Bill Powers wrote: