RM: is CSGNet – and email correspondence in general – old
hat?
MK:I started frequenting online forums around 1999 or so. Right now
I’m reading CSGNet using the web interface found at
http://listserv.illinois.edu/archives/csgnet.html so in my mind,
CSGNet is
just another discussion board, and not an example of email
correspondence
per se.
The major drawback is that the archives go only a year back. Are the
old
discussions archived?
RM: Yes they are, I believe.I just don’t know where they are. Dag
Forssell is the PCT archivist
MK: How much work would required to have them posted
online (unedited at first)? The page “Best of CSGNet”
(
http://www.iapct.org/articles/BestOfCSGNet/index.html) consists
mostly of
posts from the early 90s. It gives the unfortunate impression that
nothing
interesting seems to have been written about PCT on CSGNet during the
last
two decades. That is problematic. The 18-23 year olds of today were
born
during that period, and the dates of those posts make PCT look
like
something that never got anywhere.
RM: Yes, we should put them in an easily accessible place. Indeed,
they should be accessible from the main PCT site, pctweb.org.
But there is something to making it difficult to get to the PCT material.
If it’s hard then it shows real commitment to PCT. When I got into PCT
(back in 1978, when it was still just called control theory) I had to
work like crazy to find stuff on PCT; and it was fun because I knew this
was exciting stuff and it was kind of like gold mining.
But I guess those born into the internet age are not that enamored with
searching through real library archived.
RM: is CSGNet – and email correspondence in general – old
hat?
MK:I started frequenting online forums around 1999 or so. Right now
I’m reading CSGNet using the web interface found at http://listserv.illinois.edu/archives/csgnet.html so in my mind,
CSGNet is
just another discussion board, and not an example of email
correspondence
per se.
The major drawback is that the archives go only a year back. Are the
old
discussions archived?
RM: Yes they are, I believe.I just don’t know where they are. Dag
Forssell is the PCT archivist
MK: How much work would required to have them posted
online (unedited at first)? The page “Best of CSGNet”
(http://www.iapct.org/articles/BestOfCSGNet/index.html) consists
mostly of
posts from the early 90s. It gives the unfortunate impression that
nothing
interesting seems to have been written about PCT on CSGNet during the
last
two decades. That is problematic. The 18-23 year olds of today were
born
during that period, and the dates of those posts make PCT look
like
something that never got anywhere.
RM: Yes, we should put them in an easily accessible place. Indeed,
they should be accessible from the main PCT site, pctweb.org.
But there is something to making it difficult to get to the PCT material.
If it’s hard then it shows real commitment to PCT. When I got into PCT
(back in 1978, when it was still just called control theory) I had to
work like crazy to find stuff on PCT; and it was fun because I knew this
was exciting stuff and it was kind of like gold mining.
But I guess those born into the internet age are not that enamored with
searching through real library archived.
When I got into PCT (back in 1978, when it was still just called control
theory) I had to work like crazy to find stuff on PCT; and it was fun
because I knew this was exciting stuff and it was kind of like gold mining.
I wouldn't say that I had to work like crazy, but I struggled for some time
with the old Word documents. They wouldn't open on my computer, nor was I
able to convert them using Google Docs. I finally got my hands on an old
copy of word 2.0 (!) which I installed using the 20 year old WinImage 3.0.
Having to resurrect decades old software is enough of a barrier for me.
RM: When I got into PCT (back in 1978, when it was still just called control
theory) I had to work like crazy to find stuff on PCT; and it was fun
because I knew this was exciting stuff and it was kind of like gold mining.
MK: I wouldn’t say that I had to work like crazy, but I struggled for some time
with the old Word documents. They wouldn’t open on my computer, nor was I
able to convert them using Google Docs. I finally got my hands on an old
copy of word 2.0 (!) which I installed using the 20 year old WinImage 3.0.
Having to resurrect decades old software is enough of a barrier for me.
RM: Great story. Reminds me of the work of one of my good friends at RAND, Jeff Rothenberg, who studies, among other things, the problem of recovering information from obsolete digital media. He had a paper on this published in Scientific American back in the mid 1990 but here’s a nice version as a RAND report that is on-line:
What version of Word has difficulty opening the Word 2.0 files?
So you are in Stockholm? I was just there. Too bad I don't read CSGnet enough to have realized that we could have visited. I'll be there again in September.
Best, Dag
···
At 03:07 PM 2/23/2013, you wrote:
[From Matti Kolu (2013.02.24.0005 CET)]
[Dag Forssell (2013.02.22.1940)]--
>Matti,
>
>Check out ftp.pctresources.com
>
>User name pctstudent password re5earch!
>
>Best, Dag
Tack!
This will take some time to read through..
[Rick Marken (2013.02.22.0910)]--
>When I got into PCT (back in 1978, when it was still just called control
theory) I had to work like crazy to find stuff on PCT; and it was fun
because I knew this was exciting stuff and it was kind of like gold mining.
I wouldn't say that I had to work like crazy, but I struggled for some time
with the old Word documents. They wouldn't open on my computer, nor was I
able to convert them using Google Docs. I finally got my hands on an old
copy of word 2.0 (!) which I installed using the 20 year old WinImage 3.0.
Having to resurrect decades old software is enough of a barrier for me.
What version of Word has difficulty opening the Word 2.0 files?
I didn't have Word installed on my laptop. The few times per year that I
deal with Word files, I typically read them by uploading them to Google
Docs. That didn't work, so I tried Wordpad* and received the error message
"Can not load Word for Windows 2.0 files". Searching for that on Google
returned various results. It seems that newer Word versions are able to read
2.0 files, but that this ability has often been disabled by various Windows
related security updates. Microsoft provides downloads for re-enabling the
ability to read the old files.
The bit about having to resurrect old software was written slightly in jest
� for me, that turned out to be the most convenient solution. (Word 2.0 is
quick to install and only takes up about 10MB or so.)
* Wordpad actually worked fine for some of the later Eudora attachments,
such as EMPEROR.doc.
So you are in Stockholm?
In the vicinity, yes. But I currently something of a half-recluse. I can
assure you that missing the opportunity for a meeting wasn't much of a loss.
Matti, you have planted the idea in my mind for me to print all those old Word files to pdf.
Best, Dag
···
At 01:16 PM 2/26/2013, you wrote:
[From Matti Kolu (2013.02.26.2215 CET)]
Dag Forssell (2013.02.23.2110)--
> What version of Word has difficulty opening the Word 2.0 files?
I didn't have Word installed on my laptop. The few times per year that I
deal with Word files, I typically read them by uploading them to Google
Docs. That didn't work, so I tried Wordpad* and received the error message
"Can not load Word for Windows 2.0 files". Searching for that on Google
returned various results. It seems that newer Word versions are able to read
2.0 files, but that this ability has often been disabled by various Windows
related security updates. Microsoft provides downloads for re-enabling the
ability to read the old files.
The bit about having to resurrect old software was written slightly in jest
� for me, that turned out to be the most convenient solution. (Word 2.0 is
quick to install and only takes up about 10MB or so.)
* Wordpad actually worked fine for some of the later Eudora attachments,
such as EMPEROR.doc.
> So you are in Stockholm?
In the vicinity, yes. But I currently something of a half-recluse. I can
assure you that missing the opportunity for a meeting wasn't much of a loss.
CSGnet archive now available in new form. Just download and run.
That is, the set of files you download will run directly without any
further installation except for a shortcut I suggest you copy to your
desktop for convenience. You can also make a new shortcut if you know how
(right-click on the executable as downloaded, select Create Shortcut, and
use it instead.
If you do not want to do either of those, just go to the executable on
your memory stick or wherever and click on it.
You will be looking a a very clean, very complete archive from the very
beginning through March 3, 2013. All of it highly searchable.
Redundant setup previously at this location has been deleted.
From: Dag Forssell csgarchive@PCTRESOURCES.COM To:
CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU Sent: Monday, March 4, 2013 7:41 AM Subject: Re: CSGnet archives
[From Dag Forssell (2013.0304.0440 PST]
CSGnet archive now available in new form. Just download and run.
That is, the set of files you download will run directly without any
further installation except for a shortcut I suggest you copy to your
desktop for convenience. You can also make a new shortcut if you know how
(right-click on the executable as downloaded, select Create Shortcut, and
use it instead.
If you do not want to do either of those, just go to the executable on
your memory stick or wherever and click on it.
You will be looking a a very clean, very complete archive from the very
beginning through March 3, 2013. All of it highly searchable.
Redundant setup previously at this location has been deleted.
CSGnet archive now available in new form. Just download and run.
That is, the set of files you download will run directly without any
further installation except for a shortcut I suggest you copy to your
desktop for convenience. You can also make a new shortcut if you know how
(right-click on the executable as downloaded, select Create Shortcut, and
use it instead.
If you do not want to do either of those, just go to the executable on
your memory stick or wherever and click on it.
Very practical and easily searchable, thanks Dag!
Side note: I find the Consolas monospace font pleasant and readable.
[From Dag Forssell (2013.0305.1430 PST] Thanks to off-net suggestions from friends, the CSG archive is now more accessible than before. I’ll attach the updated ReadMe file, which includes this: Access1) Through a browser: ftp://pctstudent:re5earch!@ftp.pctresources.com
Drag .zip files (four available) to the root of a logical hard disk or memory stick. Unzip. Make sure to include original paths. The unzipped archive should now be placed next to the .zip file at the root of your memory stick or whatever. Be sure to drag the current .pdf file, CSGnetReadMe.pdf, also, open it and follow instructions. 2) Through FTP file transfer: ftp.pctresources.com User name pctstudent password re5earch!
Benefit of this approach: No need to unzip.
(I use FileZilla, available at http://filezilla-project.org/) `Best, Dag
[From Dag Forssell (2013.0305.1430 PST] Thanks to off-net suggestions from friends, the CSG
archive is now more accessible than before. I’ll attach the updated
ReadMe file, which includes this: Access1) Through a browser:
ftp://pctstud ent:re5earch!@ftp.pctresources.com
Drag .zip files (four available) to the root of a
logical hard disk or memory stick. Unzip. Make sure to include original
paths. The unzipped archive should now be placed next to the .zip file at
the root of your memory stick or whatever. Be sure to drag the current
.pdf file, CSGnetReadMe.pdf, also, open it and follow instructions. 2) Through FTP file transfer:
