[From Rick Marken (2006.10.12.1810)]
For illustrative purposes for a class, I would like to get a copy of a graph of some operant type data plotted in IV-DV format. For example, it would be nice to get a graph of average response rate (the DV) plotted as a function of the size of the reinforcer (IV). I did find a graph that plotted response rate as a function of reinforcement rate. But reinforcement rate is not really an IV since it depends on response rate, the DV. The size of the reinforcer can be manipulated independently of what the organism does; that's why I thought of using that as the IV.
I bet Bruce Abbott might know of such a graph. Didn't a guy named Tietelbaum look at the effect of reinforcement size on behavior? It would be nice if I could get such a graph from the internet.
Thanks
Best
Rick
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[From Bill Powers (2006.10.12.1919 MDT)]
Rick Marken (2006.10.12.1810)--
For illustrative purposes for a class, I would like to get a copy of a graph of some operant type data plotted in IV-DV format. For example, it would be nice to get a graph of average response rate (the DV) plotted as a function of the size of the reinforcer (IV). I did find a graph that plotted response rate as a function of reinforcement rate. But reinforcement rate is not really an IV since it depends on response rate, the DV. The size of the reinforcer can be manipulated independently of what the organism does; that's why I thought of using that as the IV.
Yes, if anyone knows of data of this kind, Bruce does. Interestingly, Bruce had the idea of correcting apparent response rates for the time taken to eat the reinforcers, and discovered that rats appear to respond at a constant rate, presses per minute, regardless of the schedule of reinforcement. I forget exactly which kind of schedule it was. It's as if the error is so large, or the output function is so sensitive, that the rats are always pressing as fast as they can when they're pressing at all. In customary analyses, the response rate is computed by dividing total responses by total time, the total time including the time when the rat is eating and not pressing the bar at all.
But this is another kind of IV-DV measurement, where the independent variable is the number of presses needed to get a reward. That can be varied since it's under the experimenter's control. Yet it's not a stimulus input to the organism. So perhaps in your discussions of IV-DV experiments you should explain that you're talking about just those experiments where the IV is some sort of input to the organism rather than a manipulation of experimental conditions or parameters. Even in PCT we use IV-DV analysis, for example when the independent variable is the magnitude of a disturbance and the dependent variable is the amount of action the organism produces.
Best,
Bill P.
[From Rick Marken (2006.10.15.1545)]
Bill Powers (2006.10.12.1919 MDT)]
Yes, if anyone knows of data of this kind, Bruce does.
Well, I'm sure glad someone's reading this list. The rest are probably hiding their heads, scared about what will happen if the Dems win the election: Gay marriage, high taxes, flag burnin', terrorists everywhere, abortion on demand. Sounds a whole lot better than what we've got, though!
Best
Rick
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Richard S. Marken Consulting
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From Phil R to Rick M:
You complained that few people seemed to be reading the list, to judge from the frequency of replies. I sympathize. So I am replying, even if I have no relevant comment to offer that is relevant to the thread. I know I contribute only rarely. I usually believe that I can add little that is useful. Usually I am a lurker, I guess.
I am glad to see that you are having good ideas about your teaching.
--P
[From Rick Marken (2006.10.18.0810)]
From Phil R to Rick M:
You complained that few people seemed to be reading the list, to judge from the frequency of replies. I sympathize. So I am replying, even if I have no relevant comment to offer that is relevant to the thread. I know I contribute only rarely. I usually believe that I can add little that is useful. Usually I am a lurker, I guess.
It's nice to know you're there!
I am glad to see that you are having good ideas about your teaching.
The graph would be for an article I'm writing. Teaching is going pretty well. I'm teaching statistics, which is kind of fun. I used the recent Lancet article which described a cluster sampling estimate of the number of non-combatant Iraqis killed since the US invasion as an example of the use of statistics to estimate population characteristics -- -and smoke out war criminals. I can't believe what the once great USA has come to! I knew that things under Bush would be bad but I really never dreamed they would be this bad.
Have a nice day;-)
Best regards
Rick
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Richard S. Marken Consulting
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Home 310 474-0313
Cell 310 729-1400