Degrees of Freedom (was Re: Publication announcement)

[Rick Marken 2018-09-03_12:51:15]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-08-31_08:08:00 ET] to Eetu  Pikkarainen

BN: It’s a bit hyperbolic to say “We have infinitely more organs for sensing our environment than organs to affect it.”

RM: Yes, but I think Eetu might be onto something very interesting here. If we change “organs” to “degrees of freedom”, “sensing” to “perceiving” and “infinitely” to “many” we get what I think is a rather profound observation:Â We have many more degrees of freedom for perceiving our environment than degrees of freedom for affecting it.Â

RM: In this context, “degrees of freedom” refers to the number of different independently variable input (perceptual) and output (motor) variables involved in the behavior of living systems The main output degrees of freedom in human behavior are the different ways the limbs can be moved so as to affect variables in the environment; the main input degrees of freedom are the different ways in which the variables in the environment can be perceived.Â

RM: We could probably come up a pretty exact estimate of the number of output degrees of freedom available to us under normal circumstances since we know a lot about the different independent ways in which the limbs can move. But it would be quite difficult to come up the the number of input degrees of freedom available to us since we don’t know much about the different independent ways in which we can perceive the world. Actually, finding the different ways in which organisms can perceive and, thus, control, the world is the main task of PCT research. But I think it’s possible to use the PCT model of behavior to show that the number of input degrees of freedom in human behavior is likely to be considerably greater than the number of output degrees of freedom. I will do that using my spreadsheet model of the behavior of a PCT hierarchy of control systems, a screenshot of which is shown here:

RM: Here we have a three level hierarchy of control systems with six control systems at each level. Each control system is made up of three variables: a reference input, R(j,i), a controlled perception, P (j,i) and output, O (j,i), where j indexes the level (1 to 3) and i indexes the system at that level (1 to 6). These control systems are operating in an environment consisting of six variables, labeled Q(i). The control systems at each level of the control hierarchy are controlling different types of perceptual variables. The lowest level control systems, which control the perceptions labeled P(1,i), control perceptual variables that are simply proportional to the Q(i); the control systems at the next level up, which control the perceptions labeled P(2,i), control perceptual variables that are linear combinations of the Q(i); and the highest level control systems, which control perceptions labels P(3,i), control perceptual variables that are logical relationships between the perceptual variables, P(2,i) at the level below.Â

RM: The only outputs of this hierarchy are the variables labeled O(1,i). These are the outputs that actually affect the state of the environmental variables that are being controlled. The outputs of the higher level systems, O(2,i) and O(3,i), are actually neural signals that contribute to the lower level references, R(j,i); they have no effect on the environment. So this hierarchy has only 6 output degrees of freedom. But it has 18 input degrees of freedom, which are the 18 different, independent perceptual variables that are being controlled by these 6 control systems.Â

RM: So in this system, the number of input degrees of freedom is 3 times the number of output degrees of freedom. I would guess that in humans the ratio of input to output degrees of freedom is much higher. That’s because we control so many different types of perceptions – that is, we do so many different things. We may have only 10 or so levels of control (as Powers has speculated) – that is, we may control only 10 or so different types of perceptual variable – but we control many different perceptions of each type. For example, if words are sequence type perceptions then there are quite a few different sequences we can produce with the same, small number of output degrees of freedom.Â

RM: So PCT explains how we are able to do so many different things with so few output degrees of freedom. It’s because we control perceptions, not outputs.Â

RM: By the way, here’s a pointer to the spreadsheet hierarchy model if anyone would like to play with it.Â

http://www.mindreadings.com/ControlDemo/SpreadsheetHierarchy.zip

Best

Rick

···


Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[Martin Taylor 2018.09.03.16.01]

Yes. Check out the four-hour tutorial keynote lecture on PCT and

Layered Protocol Theory that I was invited to give in Paris for a
conference on human-computer interaction in 1992
. This lecture
has not been exactly hidden from CSGnet. In slide 18 I estimate the
ratio of degrees of freedom between peripheral sensor degrees of
freedom (using the million fibres of the optic nerve as an example)
to output effector degrees of freedom to be somewhere in the range
of 10 to 10. That slide is followed by the
implications for output multiplexing.
But one does have to understand what “degrees of freedom” means,
which I somewhat took for granted, given the audience. It’s nothing
to do with “organs” as such, though they are part of the
calculation. It has to do with how fast and how independently those
organs can be used.
Martin

···

On 2018/09/3 3:51 PM, Richard Marken
( via csgnet Mailing List) wrote:

rsmarken@gmail.com

                [Rick

Marken 2018-09-03_12:51:15]

                    [Bruce

Nevin 2018-08-31_08:08:00 ET] to Eetu Pikkarainen

                    BN:

It’s a bit hyperbolic to say “We have infinitely
more organs for sensing our environment than
organs to affect it.”

              RM: Yes, but I think Eetu might be onto something

very interesting here. If we change “organs” to
“degrees of freedom”, “sensing” to “perceiving” and
“infinitely” to “many” we get what I think is a rather
profound observation: We
have many more degrees of freedom for perceiving our
environment than degrees of freedom for affecting
it.

http://www.mmtaylor.net/PCT/ParisTutorial.pdf56

Agreed. To support this I think of how much control people with severe motor impairments have gained through very simple motor operation of advanced alternative communication (AAC). Stephen Hawkins is one obvious example, but also see the moving story of Martin Pistorius: https://www.ted.com/talks/martin_pistorius_how_my_mind_came_back_to_life_and_no_one_knew/up-next?language=en

···

On 3 Sep 2018, at 20:51, Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

[Rick Marken 2018-09-03_12:51:15]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-08-31_08:08:00 ET] to Eetu Pikkarainen

BN: It’s a bit hyperbolic to say “We have infinitely more organs for sensing our environment than organs to affect it.”

RM: Yes, but I think Eetu might be onto something very interesting here. If we change “organs” to “degrees of freedom”, “sensing” to “perceiving” and “infinitely” to “many” we get what I think is a rather profound observation: We have many more degrees of freedom for perceiving our environment than degrees of freedom for affecting it.

RM: In this context, “degrees of freedom” refers to the number of different independently variable input (perceptual) and output (motor) variables involved in the behavior of living systems The main output degrees of freedom in human behavior are the different ways the limbs can be moved so as to affect variables in the environment; the main input degrees of freedom are the different ways in which the variables in the environment can be perceived.

RM: We could probably come up a pretty exact estimate of the number of output degrees of freedom available to us under normal circumstances since we know a lot about the different independent ways in which the limbs can move. But it would be quite difficult to come up the the number of input degrees of freedom available to us since we don’t know much about the different independent ways in which we can perceive the world. Actually, finding the different ways in which organisms can perceive and, thus, control, the world is the main task of PCT research. But I think it’s possible to use the PCT model of behavior to show that the number of input degrees of freedom in human behavior is likely to be considerably greater than the number of output degrees of freedom. I will do that using my spreadsheet model of the behavior of a PCT hierarchy of control systems, a screenshot of which is shown here:

<Picture1.jpg>

RM: Here we have a three level hierarchy of control systems with six control systems at each level. Each control system is made up of three variables: a reference input, R(j,i), a controlled perception, P (j,i) and output, O (j,i), where j indexes the level (1 to 3) and i indexes the system at that level (1 to 6). These control systems are operating in an environment consisting of six variables, labeled Q(i). The control systems at each level of the control hierarchy are controlling different types of perceptual variables. The lowest level control systems, which control the perceptions labeled P(1,i), control perceptual variables that are simply proportional to the Q(i); the control systems at the next level up, which control the perceptions labeled P(2,i), control perceptual variables that are linear combinations of the Q(i); and the highest level control systems, which control perceptions labels P(3,i), control perceptual variables that are logical relationships between the perceptual variables, P(2,i) at the level below.

RM: The only outputs of this hierarchy are the variables labeled O(1,i). These are the outputs that actually affect the state of the environmental variables that are being controlled. The outputs of the higher level systems, O(2,i) and O(3,i), are actually neural signals that contribute to the lower level references, R(j,i); they have no effect on the environment. So this hierarchy has only 6 output degrees of freedom. But it has 18 input degrees of freedom, which are the 18 different, independent perceptual variables that are being controlled by these 6 control systems.

RM: So in this system, the number of input degrees of freedom is 3 times the number of output degrees of freedom. I would guess that in humans the ratio of input to output degrees of freedom is much higher. That’s because we control so many different types of perceptions – that is, we do so many different things. We may have only 10 or so levels of control (as Powers has speculated) – that is, we may control only 10 or so different types of perceptual variable – but we control many different perceptions of each type. For example, if words are sequence type perceptions then there are quite a few different sequences we can produce with the same, small number of output degrees of freedom.

RM: So PCT explains how we are able to do so many different things with so few output degrees of freedom. It’s because we control perceptions, not outputs.

RM: By the way, here’s a pointer to the spreadsheet hierarchy model if anyone would like to play with it.

http://www.mindreadings.com/ControlDemo/SpreadsheetHierarchy.zip

Best

Rick


Richard S. Marken

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery

Many thanks for sharing this, Warren. A truly remarkable story and an even more remarkable human being.

···

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting LLC
“Assistance at A Distance�
www.nickols.us

Yes it’s an incredibly humbling life story. His book ‘Ghost Boy’ is very well written and very revealing…

Warren

···

Fred Nickols
Distance Consulting LLC
“Assistance at A Distance�
www.nickols.us

[Rick Marken 2018-09-04_18:29:36]

WM: Agreed. To support this I think of how much control people with severe motor impairments have gained through very simple motor operation of advanced alternative communication (AAC). Stephen Hawkins is one obvious example, but also see the moving story of Martin Pistorius:Â https://www.ted.com/talks/martin_pistorius_how_my_mind_came_back_to_life_and_no_one_knew/up-next?language=en

RM: What a wonderful and moving example of how one can control many degrees of freedom of perceptual experience (the perceptual variables involved in communicating, having a relationship, running a business, etc) with very few degrees of freedom of output. Could you say a bit more about how the system that he uses to communicate works? Apparently he is able to take some kind of action to stop and/or start a pointer. Is it just a pointer to letters? Or is it words? Phrases?

RM: I was going to point to a more prosaic demonstration of the ability to control many perceptual degrees of freedom with just a few output degrees of freedom: my “Hierarchical behavior of perception” demos:

https://www.mindreadings.com/ControlDemo/Hierarchy.html

https://www.mindreadings.com/ControlDemo/ProgramControl.html

RM: In these demos you can control any one of four different degrees of freedom of perceptual experience – a configuration, transition, sequence or program – using the same single output degree of freedom – a bar press. I think this shows that we are able to do complex things (like carry out complex programs of activities or behave according to certain principles), not because we have many degrees of freedom of output available for producing these results but because we have the ability to perceive the complex consequences of the few output degrees of freedom that we have. That’s just one more reason why PCT research is aimed primarily at determining what perceptual variables people (and other living organisms) control and only secondarily at determining how they control them.Â

Best

Rick

Â

···

On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 4:41 AM Warren Mansell wmansell@gmail.com wrote:

On 3 Sep 2018, at 20:51, Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu wrote:

[Rick Marken 2018-09-03_12:51:15]

[Bruce Nevin 2018-08-31_08:08:00 ET] to Eetu  Pikkarainen

BN: It’s a bit hyperbolic to say “We have infinitely more organs for sensing our environment than organs to affect it.”

RM: Yes, but I think Eetu might be onto something very interesting here. If we change “organs” to “degrees of freedom”, “sensing” to “perceiving” and “infinitely” to “many” we get what I think is a rather profound observation:Â We have many more degrees of freedom for perceiving our environment than degrees of freedom for affecting it.Â

RM: In this context, “degrees of freedom” refers to the number of different independently variable input (perceptual) and output (motor) variables involved in the behavior of living systems The main output degrees of freedom in human behavior are the different ways the limbs can be moved so as to affect variables in the environment; the main input degrees of freedom are the different ways in which the variables in the environment can be perceived.Â

RM: We could probably come up a pretty exact estimate of the number of output degrees of freedom available to us under normal circumstances since we know a lot about the different independent ways in which the limbs can move. But it would be quite difficult to come up the the number of input degrees of freedom available to us since we don’t know much about the different independent ways in which we can perceive the world. Actually, finding the different ways in which organisms can perceive and, thus, control, the world is the main task of PCT research. But I think it’s possible to use the PCT model of behavior to show that the number of input degrees of freedom in human behavior is likely to be considerably greater than the number of output degrees of freedom. I will do that using my spreadsheet model of the behavior of a PCT hierarchy of control systems, a screenshot of which is shown here:

<Picture1.jpg>

RM: Here we have a three level hierarchy of control systems with six control systems at each level. Each control system is made up of three variables: a reference input, R(j,i), a controlled perception, P (j,i) and output, O (j,i), where j indexes the level (1 to 3) and i indexes the system at that level (1 to 6). These control systems are operating in an environment consisting of six variables, labeled Q(i). The control systems at each level of the control hierarchy are controlling different types of perceptual variables. The lowest level control systems, which control the perceptions labeled P(1,i), control perceptual variables that are simply proportional to the Q(i); the control systems at the next level up, which control the perceptions labeled P(2,i), control perceptual variables that are linear combinations of the Q(i); and the highest level control systems, which control perceptions labels P(3,i), control perceptual variables that are logical relationships between the perceptual variables, P(2,i) at the level below.Â

RM: The only outputs of this hierarchy are the variables labeled O(1,i). These are the outputs that actually affect the state of the environmental variables that are being controlled. The outputs of the higher level systems, O(2,i) and O(3,i), are actually neural signals that contribute to the lower level references, R(j,i); they have no effect on the environment. So this hierarchy has only 6 output degrees of freedom. But it has 18 input degrees of freedom, which are the 18 different, independent perceptual variables that are being controlled by these 6 control systems.Â

RM: So in this system, the number of input degrees of freedom is 3 times the number of output degrees of freedom. I would guess that in humans the ratio of input to output degrees of freedom is much higher. That’s because we control so many different types of perceptions – that is, we do so many different things. We may have only 10 or so levels of control (as Powers has speculated) – that is, we may control only 10 or so different types of perceptual variable – but we control many different perceptions of each type. For example, if words are sequence type perceptions then there are quite a few different sequences we can produce with the same, small number of output degrees of freedom.Â

RM: So PCT explains how we are able to do so many different things with so few output degrees of freedom. It’s because we control perceptions, not outputs.Â

RM: By the way, here’s a pointer to the spreadsheet hierarchy model if anyone would like to play with it.Â

http://www.mindreadings.com/ControlDemo/SpreadsheetHierarchy.zip

Best

Rick


Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Richard S. MarkenÂ

"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.�
                --Antoine de Saint-Exupery