Dutch Twist

[From Rick Marken (961015.1300)]

Hans Blom (961015)--

Now we don't have an accurate delimitation of what control systems are

You might not, but "we" certainly do.

a system that strives for constancy of some of its internal quantities in
the face of variations in the outside environment.

Well, sort of. How about "a system that brings a perceptual representation of
some environmental state of affairs to some constant or varying reference
level while protecting it from the effects of disturbance".

A controller can control only in a benign environment, as I have pointed out
frequently.

How is this different from saying, tautologically, "a control system can only
control in an environment in which it can control?" CSGNet is a benign
environment for some control systems (like me) but not for others (like
Bruce A.):wink:

Does a cell _control_ the body? No

Very good!

...But _together_ they [cells] do.

Oops. Back to square one;-)

What controls and what is controlled may be mostly a matter of what we
consider, at any moment, "the (control) system under consideration".

If you ever learn what control is (after 6 years of watching your resistance
to understanding anything about PCT I'm not holding my breath), you will
see that this statement is not true. See "The asymmetry of control" in LCS II.

RSM

[From Rick Marken (961022.1230)]

Hans Blom (961022) --

In some of the physiological control systems that I teach about...blah blah

Bill Powers (961022.1100 MDT) --

...From the low loop gains you are measuring, around 3, I would guess that
what you are taking to be the controlled variable is only related to a true
controlled variable...ahhhh ahhhh

Proving once again that those who can, do. Those who can't, teach;-)

Best

Rick