[From Bill Williams 18 February 2OO4 9:30 PM CST]
[From Kenny Kitzke (2004.02.18)]
Add to this complexity, and the lack of consensus on
theory, and possibly shoddy methodology in data
generation and analysis to the unprofessional rancor
and insults and accusations accompanying the thread(s)
and my interest in pursuing this futher has waned.
I find it fascinating that Kenny’s perception of the state
of economics matches my own perceptions regarding economics
when I first realized, as a secondary school student, that
the study of economics was a specialized academic and
professional field.
However, my reaction was quite different than Kenny’s.
Instead of being repelled by the perception that I share
with Kenny about many of the features characteristic of
the state-of-the-art of contemporary economics, I was
thrilled.
Here was an area in which there was obviously lots of
room for improvement. And, this, again obviously is still
true. My initial impression that economics was sort of
like engineering wasn’t accurate. But, economics is a
field in which it is at least potentially possible, at
least in principle, for a person to make a fundamental
contribution-- without having to become a small cog,
that is a part of some enormous industrial/research
big science type enterprise.
And, economics can be an interesting field to work in.
When you first are awarded a Ph.D. as I was it really
can be thrill to walk into a hospital as director and
representative of the state’s planning board. One day
you are a graduate student, the next day with a Ph.D
in hand, it is like being a Bird Colonel. Which even if
you don’t crave that sort of thing, it is still rather
interesting.
But, the real thrill is having Ph.D. students. And,
the graduate seminars really are conducted very much
like a competitive sport-- with the rules made up as
you go along. Sort of like CSGnet.
You talk about the
"unprofessional rancor and insults and accusations
accompanying the thread(s)
It has been my experience that when issues are thought to
be really important people behave exactly like they do in
the CSGnet discussions. When things get really important
there are no rules-- because it is the rules that are the
subject of the dispute.
You complain about vulgar language. I’ve been working on
materials that are a part of the political economy course
here. A part of it is concerned with revolutionary leaders,
Lenin, Ho Chi Minh, Thomas Jefferson, Lincoln.
Now, in may ways Lincoln may be as interesting as any of the
others. In putting down a reactionary counter-revolution he
carried out at least an over-haul of the American governmental
system. And, he was quite clever. Consider the following
Sandburg, Carl. 1954 Abraham Lincoln: volume 3 The War Years
New York: Dell paperbacks
"The good, upright, usually well-tempered [senator] Fessenden
it was told over Washington, in a rage over some unjust
distribution of patronage turned loose a flow of 'intemperate
language’ on Lincoln one morning. Lincoln keep cool. The fury
of his Maine friend spent itself, Lincoln inquired gently,
‘You are an Episcopalian, aren’t you, Senator?’
‘Yes, sir. I belong to that church.’
'I thought so. You Episcopalians all swear alike. Seward is
an Episcopalian. But Stanton is a Presbyterian. You ought to
hear him swear.’
Then Lincoln went on telling about several varieties of profanity, and he and Fessendon settled down to an even-toned conversation." p. 628.
Now, Lincoln’s approach was far more astute than the one that I’ve adopted. But, my approach works in the sense that I intended it to. It shucks off, the hypocrisy.
There has been, maybe there always has been a sort of rule that Bill Powers and Rick Marken get to abuse people verbally. So, Powers tells me to stuff it. Where were you? Is this how people
ought to talk?
Well if nobody on the CSGnet gives a shit how Powers treats other
People then I dont have any hesitation to tell him to just fuck off.
Where does Powers get the idea that it is OK, to tell me to Stuff it. Basically from being surrounding by people like David Goldstein.
Does anyone call Markens on his absurd whining. Noo.
Marken in a bid for sympathy once more screwed the pooch, only this time the pooch was his gentle Jewish grandfather.
Bill Williams