Economics among the monkeys

Something that may interest economic modellers.

Economic behaviour among capuchins:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/magazine/05FREAK.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

http://www.som.yale.edu/faculty/keith.chen/articles/NewScientist%20text%2011_5_05.pdf

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2251327

And among macaques:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1700821,00.html
(Close the ad to get to the article.)

http://tectschool2008.googlepages.com/Gumert2007matingmarketAnimBehav74p16.pdf

Some of these might be behind paywalls -- if anyone can't access them, I can send a copy.

···

--
Richard Kennaway, jrk@cmp.uea.ac.uk, http://www.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~jrk/
School of Computing Sciences,
University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Bill Powers (2008.11.26.0713 MST)]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/05/magazine/05FREAK.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2

This does look like a good candidate for a model, though perhaps a rather complex one for the first attempt.

One interesting feature not mentioned is that to make the money economy work, it's necessary to be sure that the items being purchased are not freely available without paying for them. The money then acts something like a schedule of reinforcement, in that the money, like the Skinnerian lever, is the only environmental feedback function available through which behavior can control the input of whatever is wanted. When control is perfect, the rate of spending money is determined by the reference level set for input rate and the price per unit input.

An interesting feature of this arrangement is that if the price is increased, it's necessary to spend more money to get the same amount of the good. If the good is a necessity (as when the only way to get air is to buy it), this will surely happen if the organism remains alive.

In the case where the input item (marshmallows) is apparently wanted in unlimited quantities, it would seem that no amount of the input up to the observed maximum is enough to match the reference level. Either that, or there is something in the marshmallows that is wanted in normal amounts, but which is present only in trace amounts. When I was young I had a dog named Skipper, who could be induced to drink endless quantities of water just by filling his bowl with water and then adding a tablespoon of milk to it. Without the milk, he would drink normal amounts of water, but milk (or the idea of milk) was apparently very valuable, so even just a tint of milk in the water indicated presence of the ambrosia. However, it was very difficult to satisfy the reference level for milk when all that was present was a homeopathic dose of it. This is similar to Skinner's demonstration that pigeons given ever-decreasing amounts of reinforcer per peck on a key would wear their beaks down to stubs trying to get enough to eat (Skinner seemed to have no gene for empathy).

Hmm. Does this have something to do with obesity? Do we overeat because we're trying to get something from food that has been replaced by a cheaper substitute that tastes the same (or better) but doesn't have the same effect inside us?

I think we could show, with a model, various ways to create the appearance of unlimited appetites without any such thing actually existing. I'm pretty sure the explanation offered by this article is incorrect:

"That's because economics is in essence the study of incentives, and how people -- perhaps even monkeys -- respond to those incentives. "

I would say that economics is the study of people (or monkeys in laboratories) getting what they want or need for themselves when the means of doing so is money and other means are unavailable or are strongly discouraged.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Richard Kennaway (2008.11.26.1700 GMT)]

[From Bill Powers (2008.11.26.0713 MST)]
I would say that economics is the study of people (or monkeys in laboratories) getting what they want or need for themselves when the means of doing so is money and other means are unavailable or are strongly discouraged.

I would say that it's the study of people getting what they want or need when they can't have everything.

Economics is no more about money than physics is about atoms. Money is just the most widely used mechanism that people have invented to deal with the problem of exchange.

···

--
Richard Kennaway, jrk@cmp.uea.ac.uk, Richard Kennaway
School of Computing Sciences,
University of East Anglia, Norwich NR4 7TJ, U.K.

[From Bill Powers (2008.11.26.1047 MST)]

Richard Kennaway (2008.11.26.1700 GMT)

[From Bill Powers (2008.11.26.0713 MST)]
I would say that economics is the study of people (or monkeys in laboratories) getting what they want or need for themselves when the means of doing so is money and other means are unavailable or are strongly discouraged.

I would say that it's the study of people getting what they want or need when they can't have everything.

OK, then I would say it's the study of people getting what they want or need. In other words, economics is control behavior in a commercial setting.

The theory that people want "everything", or as much as they can get no matter how much it is, is untenable. Certainly some people have reference levels for some things far in excess of what they can ever satisfy. But this is not a viable state of the human system: maximum error all of the time. People who can never get enough are not able to control for the related variables, since their errors can never be brought to zero and are unaffected by their actions. It would be easy to make a list of things I want only a specific amount of, neither more nor less. My gain is very high only for a few things, and they are mostly things that aren't optional -- survival stuff. Yet I spend very little time trying to correct errors in such variables, because I am capable of keeping them at their completely finite reference levels.

Even wanting a lot of money is really not an issue, because that's mostly just to remove constraints, not a matter of actually wanting more money than I could ever get (I spend almost no time trying to get more money). I just want to know there will be enough, in case there is something I want to use it for. Usually I don't think about that at all. If there were a chronic huge error signal for money, I wouldn't be able to think of anything else. Ditto for just about any good or service you could name that you can't get enough of.

People who are avaricious are not functioning properly. They're in a state of uncorrectable error and are probably reorganizing all the time (unless there's something wrong with their ability to reorganize). They are obsessive and compulsive, and their attention is constricted. While any realistic economic model has to include a certain proportion of such people, they are not examples of effective economic behavior, nor are they anything like a majority. They cause a lot of trouble for everyone else. Economic Man is a control system, though sometimes a malfunctioning control system.

Economics is no more about money than physics is about atoms. Money is just the most widely used mechanism that people have invented to deal with the problem of exchange.

Yes. And all the economies we might be called on to model use money as the primary medium of exchange, as well as money-equivalents such as credit cards and bank accounts. But that isn't to say that we can't allow for other kinds of transactions in an economic model. Economists don't hesitate to represent non-commercial interactions in terms of the economic principles they're selling; I think we have a right to represent commercial interactions in terms of PCT, which is probably a more believable theory than any economist has come up with.

Best,

Bill P.