From[Bill Williams 14 June 2004 2:20 PM CST]
[From Bill Powers (2004.06.14.1939 MDT)]
Bill Williams (2004.06.14)]
What you dismiss as sophistology is the crux of the principles of negative
feedback control.
Nonsense. What does control theory have to do with individualism? Nothing.
You keep attepting to wrap your PCT sophistology in science, physics, chemistry, neurology, and control theory. But, the two really have only an accidental connection. The connection is that the same man Bill Powers had both patterns of thought in his head and has now gotten them confused. That is all they have to do with each other.
I am surprized that you are inclined to introduce this ideological content into a discussion of programing. Untill recently I was still sufficiently naive to think that you held some things to be sacred. I am quite genuinely surprized that you would allow an ideological motive to distort your thinking so that you would generate false arguments in the context of modeling to discredit me.
After 20 years of acquaintance, am I now to conclude that you have never
understood those principles?
First, Are you sure that you fully understand the meaning of "principles?"
Second, You can believe 12 impossible things before breakfast if you wish.
Third, for all I know maybe you do-- that is believe 12 impossible things before breakfast.
As to my understanding of control theory; You've made snide remarks about my being stuck back with Op-Amps. However, I went to the trouble of learning electronomics so that I could understand cybernetics. How many people associated with CSG could as much as name a part number of an Op-Amp. How many people in the CSG group have been employed and successfully completed a project in which they have designed, built and installed a control system into a large piece of industrial machinery? How many people in CSG have served as a technical advisor to the FAA or simliar agency regarding a faltering aircraft control system?
And, before I met you, yes using Op-Amps, I managed to design a negative feedback control system for a harvester. It wasn't an easy task since the hydrallic line that feed the actuator, was also the line that was used as the presure sensor. When I explained to you how the system worked you said it was an ingenous piece of work. I guess you've forgotten.
Apparently, if you can not win an argument about the PCT sophistology directly you will resort to falsehoods in an to attempt to discredit me another way.
You could ask any control theory engineer, in the CSGnet group, to assess whether I understand control theory or not. Except who would you ask? There isn't a sufficient technical membership in the CSGnet to assemble a panel in this country to make such an assessment. And, I guess that says something doesn't it?
Do I understand control theory? In the sense that I have been paid to perform assessments, repair, to design, construct and install control devices in large
industrial systems and aircraft I think that there is some evidence that I have demonstrated to, some extent, an understanding of control theory.
I wonder how many control theory engineers have enthusiastically endorsed your PCT sophistology? Who, I'd like to know besides yourself believes that control theory principles provides a proof for the slogan that "All I can know is what I perceive?"
You've charged me with dishonesty recently, I will return the favor. I think you should consider modifying your PCT slogan to "All I know is what I want to perceive so that I can honestly tell the lies I want to tell."
The only genuine solution to the problem between us would require the active participation of a sufficient number of people who genuinely understood the techical issues involved. Under the current circustances there is a definite lack of interest by persons sufficiently technically informed to contribute to a resolution regarding the meaning and worth of PCT.
The absence of an adaquate number of participants with such technical qualifications, I would suppose, renders as decisive a judgment on this question regarding the merits of PCT as we are going to get.
Bill Williams