examples of controlled variables

i.kurtzer (990330.1530)

These are two clean papers I've found that demonstrate different
controlled variables.

Running in the real world:adjusting leg stiffness for different
surfaces,(1998). D. Ferris, Louie, M., and Farley, C.T. Proceedings of the
Royal Society of London, 265, pp989-984.

The vertical displacement of a runner is a function of the runner's mass,
the stiffness of the leg's and the stiffness of the surface. By changing
the suface stiffness the experimenters disturbed the hypothetical
controlled variable, "vertical displacement". Vertical displacement as
well as "contact time" were conserved throughout different surfaces.

Guidance of locomotion on foot uses perceived target location rather than
optical guidance (1998). Rushton, S., Harris, J.M., Lloyd, M.R., and
Wann, J.P. Current Biology, 8, pp. 1191-1194.

Different trajectories are predictable if subjects are controlling for
different visual features as they walk towards a target. Two hypotheses
are optic flow and target-midline separation. Having a subject wear
prism lens deflects the entire visual field, but conserves local
relations. If the subjects were controlling "optic flow" then the
deflection would not disturb that variable and they should make a
beeline to the target. Instead, the prisms shift the field from the
midline of the subject so that the subject must make a veering course in
extra-personal space to keep the target on the mid-line. The latter won.

The articles are easy reads and a good example of how these ideas bear
down on a line of research.
If by chance you cannot find them, send me your adress. The next beer is
on you. Or send me an article on a controlled variable in your field.
Preferrably the latter.

i.

this is from Phil Runkel on 30 March 99.

Isaac K!: Thanks very much for digging up those two articles that sound
like the real thing! I have not read them, so I can't say how well the
authors clung to the PCT, but a toe-hold is to be welcomed. Thanks again.

[From Bill Powers (990331. 1228 AM)]

i.kurtzer (990330.1530)

These are two clean papers I've found that demonstrate different
controlled variables.

Excellent and relevant finds, and thanks.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Rick Marken (990331.0800)]

i.kurtzer (990330.1530) --

an article on a controlled variable in your field.
By changing the suface stiffness the experimenters disturbed the
hypothetical controlled variable, "vertical displacement".
Vertical displacement as well as "contact time" were conserved
throughout different surfaces.

This sounds interesting, but I'm not convinced that "vertical
displacement" is a controlled variable. How do people perceive
vertical displacement? When I run the only perception I have of
vertical displacement is visual but I don't think I actually
control this perception. I bet these researchers would have
obtained the same results if the runners were blindfolded (on a
treadmill so they are safe). My sense is that the constancy of
vertical displacement is a side effect of control of some other
variable, like the time between strides. This is what happened
in the study of baseball catching behavior. There the researchers
found that the fly balls trace out a straight line on the retina.
It looked like they had found a controlled variable (linear
optical trajectory or LOT) but, in fact, LOT is almost certainly
a side effect of controlling a different variable; optical velocity.
If the baseball researchers had actually understood what a
controlled variable is they might have been able to do the
catching research properly to determine what variable was actually
being controlled. I think the same is likely to be the case for
this "vertical displacement" control research.

Different trajectories [outputs] are predictable if subjects
are controlling for different visual features as they walk
towards a target. Two hypotheses are optic flow and target-midline
separation.

This sounds better. But it would have been nice if they had
kept track of the state of the hypothetical controlled variables
(optic flow and target-midline separation) as well as the
trajectories. Also, it sounds like this is kind of a straw-man
comparison; how can a person possibly get to a target location by
controlling optical flow?

The articles are easy reads and a good example of how these
ideas bear down on a line of research.

I'm not convinced. These studies certainly don't seem to
"bear down" on controlled variables. I think what you have found
in these articles is what I found in the baseball catching
literature; studies that can be _seen_ as parts of a program
of testing for controlled variables, but they are _not really_
research on controlled variables. The authors are only
interested in what _causes_ the observed behavior (leg
stiffness or trajectory to target), as is evident from the way
they _talk_ about the research (the title of the most promising
of the two articles is "Guidance of locomotion on foot uses
perceived target location rather than optical guidance"; clearly
these researcher think that locomotion [output] is _guided_
by the identified perceptual variable [input]).

These studies might be a good starting point for research
and modeling by someone (like you, Isaac) who understands
PCT. But I'm pretty sure that the people who seem to have
been studying "control of vertical displacement" or "control
of target-midline separation" will soon end up developing
"model based", "fuzzy logic", or "predictive control" models
that show how people _compute_ the stiffnesses and trajectories
that "control" vertical displacement and target-midline separation,
respectively. That's where they are now in the ball catching
world; it's output generation all the way.

If by chance you cannot find them, send me your adress. The
next beer is on you. Or send me an article on a controlled
variable in your field. Preferrably the latter.

I would like to see them. The only articles on controlled
variables I know of in my field (psychology), other than those
done by PCTers, were published by Bruce Abbott. I'm sure
he'll be happy to send you copies;-)

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken

i.kurtzer (990331.1400)

[From Rick Marken (990331.0800)]

i.kurtzer (990330.1530) --

> an article on a controlled variable in your field.
> By changing the suface stiffness the experimenters disturbed the
> hypothetical controlled variable, "vertical displacement".
> Vertical displacement as well as "contact time" were conserved
> throughout different surfaces.

This sounds interesting, but I'm not convinced that "vertical
displacement" is a controlled variable. How do people perceive
vertical displacement? When I run the only perception I have of
vertical displacement is visual but I don't think I actually
control this perception.

Its not best to introspect on what are the variables that one perceives
and controls in the PCT sense. If you read then articles you might have
a better basis to decide what is and is not controlled.

I bet these researchers would have
obtained the same results if the runners were blindfolded (on a
treadmill so they are safe).
My sense is that the constancy of
vertical displacement is a side effect of control of some other
variable, like the time between strides.As far as interstride time, I

mention that it was also conserved. This is what happened

in the study of baseball catching behavior. There the researchers
found that the fly balls trace out a straight line on the retina.
It looked like they had found a controlled variable (linear
optical trajectory or LOT) but, in fact, LOT is almost certainly
a side effect of controlling a different variable; optical velocity.
If the baseball researchers had actually understood what a
controlled variable is they might have been able to do the
catching research properly to determine what variable was actually
being controlled. I think the same is likely to be the case for
this "vertical displacement" control research.

It is best to read the articles before criticizing them.

> Different trajectories [outputs] are predictable if subjects
> are controlling for different visual features as they walk
> towards a target. Two hypotheses are optic flow and target-midline
> separation.

This sounds better. But it would have been nice if they had
kept track of the state of the hypothetical controlled variables
(optic flow and target-midline separation) as well as the
trajectories. Also, it sounds like this is kind of a straw-man
comparison; how can a person possibly get to a target location by
controlling optical flow?

It a prominent hypothesis forwarded by several biggies...including
Gibson and Turvey..how they decided
it was good is another story.

> The articles are easy reads and a good example of how these
> ideas bear down on a line of research.

I'm not convinced. These studies certainly don't seem to
"bear down" on controlled variables. I think what you have found
in these articles is what I found in the baseball catching
literature; studies that can be _seen_ as parts of a program
of testing for controlled variables, but they are _not really_
research on controlled variables. The authors are only
interested in what _causes_ the observed behavior (leg
stiffness or trajectory to target), as is evident from the way
they _talk_ about the research (the title of the most promising
of the two articles is "Guidance of locomotion on foot uses
perceived target location rather than optical guidance"; clearly
these researcher think that locomotion [output] is _guided_
by the identified perceptual variable [input]).

These studies might be a good starting point for research
and modeling by someone (like you, Isaac) who understands
PCT. But I'm pretty sure that the people who seem to have
been studying "control of vertical displacement" or "control
of target-midline separation" will soon end up developing
"model based", "fuzzy logic", or "predictive control" models
that show how people _compute_ the stiffnesses and trajectories
that "control" vertical displacement and target-midline separation,
respectively. That's where they are now in the ball catching
world; it's output generation all the way.

Its not good to write things off that you have not read.
nor does "controlling per se" mean the idea is well grounded: ex.
"universal error curve". I brought up these experiemnts as they form a
part of field. This is something lacking within PCT. We have
demonstrations out the butt but only a few lines of research.

i.

[From Rick Marken (990331.1230)]

i.kurtzer (990331.1400)--

Its not best to introspect on what are the variables that one
perceives and controls in the PCT sense.

Actually, I think "introspection" is a great source of hypotheses
about the variables an organism might be controlling. After all,
the aim of the Test is to understand behavior from the perspective
of the organism under study. There is no question that introspection
has it's limits (I'm never going to be able to introspect the
variables a bat controls when it's echolocating).

My introspection about my perception of vertical displacement
while running may not be correct but it does suggest a way to
test whether or not a runner is controlling the visual
representation of vertical displacement; the blindfold test.

If you read then articles you might have a better basis to decide
what is and is not controlled.

I agree. I'd appreciate it if you could send me copies.

Me:

how can a person possibly get to a target location by controlling
optical flow?

Isaac:

It a prominent hypothesis forwarded by several biggies...

Big what? :wink:

Anyway, all I meant is that it's not obvious to me how controlling
optical flow will get you to a target position. I suppose you
could control for "non-flow" of the target point; but you could
do this by just standing still.

Its not good to write things off that you have not read.

I agree. I was just alluding to some disappointing experiences
I have had with other research (on baseball catching) that appeared,
at first glance, to have identified a controlled variable.

nor does "controlling per se" mean the idea is well grounded: ex.
"universal error curve".

What?

I brought up these experiemnts as they form a part of field.
This is something lacking within PCT.

Not completely. Have you read Bill Powers' research on pointing
behavior? It's the stuff he and Greg Williams wrote up for
_Science_.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken

[From Bill Powers (990401.1431 nMST)]

Rick Marken (990331.0800)--

... in the study of baseball catching behavior. There the researchers
found that the fly balls trace out a straight line on the retina.

Surely not on the retina. For that to happen, the fielder would have to
gaze in a fixed direction instead of looking at the ball. The path of the
ball that's perceived in these models is relative to the background, the
ball's image probably remaining more or less centered on the retina while
the fielder is watching it.

Best,

Bill P.

i.kurtzer (990331.2000)

[From Rick Marken (990331.1230)]
i.kurtzer (990331.1400)--

> Its not best to introspect on what are the variables that one
> perceives and controls in the PCT sense.

Actually, I think "introspection" is a great source of hypotheses
about the variables an organism might be controlling. After all,
the aim of the Test is to understand behavior from the perspective
of the organism under study. There is no question that introspection
has it's limits (I'm never going to be able to introspect the
variables a bat controls when it's echolocating).

I spoke poorly. I meant and mean to say that criticism of an objectively
arrived finding by introspection is not a good idea. On that I figure we
agree.

i.

[From Rick Marken (990417.2050)]

This is a reply to an old post from i.kurtzer (990331.1400).
Isaac sent me a couple of papers that seemed to be examples
of conventional research that represent attempts to test for
controlled variables. I'll just comment on one of them now. It's
called "Guidance of locomotion on foot uses perceived target
location rather than optic flow" by S. Rushton, J. Harris,
M. Lloyd and J. Wann and published in _Current Biology_ (1998).

The aim of this study was to determine what "cue" people use to
"guide" walking to a target. Two possibilities were considered:
1) focus of expansion (FoE) and 2) retinal target location.

When you walk toward an object there is an "optic flow" of the
visual scene outward from the fixation point; this flow is zero
at the fixation point; that point is the FoE. I think the FoE
hypothesis is that people walk towards a preselected target by
keeping it fixated so that it is at the FoE. So it's fairly
weird for Rushton et al to talk about the FoE "guiding"
locomotion; it's really locomotion that guides the FoE.

The other hypothesis is that the retinal location of the target
(relative to the fovea) "guides" locomotion. So people locomote
to a target by keeping the target retinally located on the fovea.
Again, it's really the locomotion that controls target location
on the retina, keeping it foveated; but who's keeping score?

Rushton et al wanted to know whether people are "guided" to a
target by FoE or retinal location. They reasoned that, if people
are guided by FoE, then locomotion to a target would _not_ be
disrupted if people wore prism glasses. Such glasses change
the retinal location of the target but they don't affect optic
flow; an object at the FoE without the prism glasses will still
be the FoE with them on.

What Rushton et al found was that the prisms did disrupt the
ability to walk towards a target. Subjects stood about 10 meters
from a target (a ball held at arms length by the experimenter).
A digital camera recorded their paths to the target (from above).
These paths were curved (they would not be if the subject were
walking toward the FoE) and they usually ended somewhat to the
side of the target (also expected if the subjects are "guided"
by retinal target location rather than FoE).

Superficially, it looks like Rushton et al have done something
like a test for the controlled variable. They came up with some
hypotheses about the variable under control (FoE, retinal
location); manipulated a variable (prisms off/on) that would be
a disturbance if the subject were controlling one variable
(retinal location) but not the other (FoE). They even measured
(indirectly) one of the hypothetical controlled variables
(angle of target relative to fixation; they called it alpha)
and measured the effect of the disturbance on this variable
(they correctly predicted that alpha should be kept close
to 16 degrees -- the displacement angle of the prism glasses --
if alpha is under control; see their Figure 2b).

Rushton et al found that subjects did, indeed, act (by taking a
curved rather than a straight path to the target) as though they
were resisting the prism disturbance to retinal location; they
also presented evidence that the retinal location of the target
is kept foveated (alpha is nearly constant at the prism angle;
see their Figure 3). So they concluded (not in these words, of
course) that FoE was _not_ a controlled variable and that retinal
location _is_ the variable people control when they walk to
a target object.

In fact, there is no test for a controlled variable in this
study. Rushton et al's results show what people _don't_ control
not what they _do_ control. Their results show clearly that
don't control FoE (and probably not retinal location either;
see below) when they walk to a target. At best, the Rushton
et al research _eliminates_ some possible hypotheses about
the variables people might control when they walk to a target.
Unfortunately, these researchers leave the impression that
they _have_ identified_ a controlled variable (or, in their
words, a "cue" that "guides" locomotion): retinal target
location. This is not the case at all.

What Rushton et al have done is just the first few steps
of a test for controlled variables. They guessed at two
possible controlled variables. Then they predicted (correctly,
I assume) how those variables would behave when a person walked
to a target with and without a disturbance (prism displacement).
Those predictions can be described in terms of alpha, the angle
between actual target location and the direction of the subjects
gaze. If the subject is controlling FoE then alpha will be (and
remain) zero as the subject walks to the target, with or without
the prism glasses. If the subject is controlling retinal target
location then alpha will be (and remain) zero as the subject
walks to the target _without_ the prism glasses and 16 degrees
(the prism angle) as the subject walks to the target _with_ the
prism glasses.

Rushton present, in their Figure 2b, an excellent description
of the expected behavior of alpha (the hypothetical controlled
variable if subjects are controlling retinal target location)
as the subject walks to the target with prism glasses on. The
prediction is that alpha will be constant (at 16 degrees) over
the course of the walk. The actual behavior of alpha for
5 different subjects is shown in their Figure 3; in only one
case was the behavior of alpha anywhere close to being a
constant (and in this case alpha was close to zero rather
than 16 degrees, an indication that this subject was _not_
controlling the retinal location of the target). Rushton et al
conclude that the subjects were controlling alpha (at 16 degrees)
because the _average_ value of alpha (over 5 subjects) over
the course of the walk was _nearly_ constant at _nearly_ 16
degrees. So Rushton et al are violating the first commandment
of behavioral research: thou shalt not base conclusions about
individual behavior on group averages.

There are many other problems with the Rushton et al study
from a PCT perspective. Most important, Rushton et al don't
say whether the data in their Figure 3 represent the first,
second or nth try at walking to a target with prisms. It may be
that the poor control of alpha seen with the prism glasses is
just a result of not having given the subjects time to learn to
control with the glasses on. As it sits, we don't know whether
the behavior of alpha shown in Figure 3 represents _poor_
control of retinal target location or _good_ control of some
other variable.

So the Rushton et al study is not even an "accidental" test for
controlled variables (if it were a test then it would have
to have been accidental since Rushton et al have no idea what a
controlled variable is) since they don't show us what variable
_is_ under control when people walk towards a target. Their
research does _eliminate_ a couple of possible controlled
variables (FoE for sure and retinal target position _almost_
for sure) which, I suppose, is better than nothing -- but not
much.

I think that, in order to do the test for controlled variables
properly, one _really_ has to know what a controlled variable _is_.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken/

[From Bill Powers (990418.1241 MDT)]

Rick Marken (990417.2050)]

A few questions about the paper from Isaac that you describe. It seems to
me that some of the assumptions are questionable.

The aim of this study was to determine what "cue" people use to
"guide" walking to a target. Two possibilities were considered:
1) focus of expansion (FoE) and 2) retinal target location.

When you walk toward an object there is an "optic flow" of the
visual scene outward from the fixation point; this flow is zero
at the fixation point; that point is the FoE. I think the FoE
hypothesis is that people walk towards a preselected target by
keeping it fixated so that it is at the FoE. So it's fairly
weird for Rushton et al to talk about the FoE "guiding"
locomotion; it's really locomotion that guides the FoE.

It's weird for Rushton et. al. to talk about "retinal target location" as
if the target would be anywhere but on the fovea. But why guess? It's so
easy to determine where the person is looking that I don't see why they
didn't do this.

The other weird thing is the assumption that the prism glasses would
deviate the target from the fovea. What would keep the person from
foveating the target with or without the prism glasses? But again, why
guess? It would be a rather simple matter to determine where the person is
looking, so why wasn't that done?

Dumb de dumb dumb.

Best,

Bill P.

[From Bill Powers (990418.17630 MDT)]

i.kurtzer (990418.2100)

People have already determined where directions of foveation and how
changing retinal locations per se do not interfere with navigating as
these are integrated with neck proprioceptive signals to give body
relative signals as measured physiologically and standard approaches to
targets as measured behaviorally.

Head, neck, torso, hip, and leg, I presume.

Deviated relative to the eye-proprioceptive map. The eye in the center of
its orbit now is exposed to the image who center is shifted Xdegrees away
from the fovea, where it would normally fall.

If the person changes direction of walking, the eye can be in the center of
its orbit with the image of the target appearing to be straight ahead
(foveated). The objective targer would be deviated, of course, but it's the
_appearance_ of the target's direction that is under control. The target
would deviate only until the person could change the direction of walking.
Actually, I suspect that the target would be instantly foveated by turning
the eyes and head, and then the direction of walking would be altered until
the body segments came into mutual alignment in the subjective
"straight-ahead" direction.

But again, why
guess? It would be a rather simple matter to determine where the person is
looking, so why wasn't that done?

Where they are looking is not so simple when you have a creature moving
around. If they are sitting then you use a magnetic coil as they have for
20 plus years. For here it was irrelevant.

At least a rough estimate could be made from video closeups taken from
beyond the position of the target. And what about subjective reports?.

Best,

Bill P.

i.kurtzer (990418.2100)

[From Bill Powers (990418.1241 MDT)]

Rick Marken (990417.2050)]
A few questions about the paper from Isaac that you describe. It seems to
me that some of the assumptions are questionable.

It's weird for Rushton et. al. to talk about "retinal target location" as
if the target would be anywhere but on the fovea. But why guess? It's so
easy to determine where the person is looking that I don't see why they
didn't do this.

People have already determined where directions of foveation and how
changing retinal locations per se do not interfere with navigating as
these are integrated with neck proprioceptive signals to give body
relative
signals as measured physiologically and standard approaches to targets as
measured behaviorally.

The other weird thing is the assumption that the prism glasses would
deviate the target from the fovea. What would keep the person from
foveating the target with or without the prism glasses?

Deviated relative to the eye-proprioceptive map. The eye in the center of
its orbit now is exposed to the image who center is shifted Xdegrees away
from the fovea, where it would normally fall.

But again, why
guess? It would be a rather simple matter to determine where the person is
looking, so why wasn't that done?

Where they are looking is not so simple when you have a creature moving
around. If they are sitting then you use a magnetic coil as they have for
20 plus years. For here it was irrelevant.

i.

i.kurtzer (990419.2110)

[From Rick Marken (990417.2050)]

This is a reply to an old post from i.kurtzer (990331.1400).
Isaac sent me a couple of papers that seemed to be examples
of conventional research that represent attempts to test for
controlled variables. I'll just comment on one of them now. It's
called "Guidance of locomotion on foot uses perceived target
location rather than optic flow" by S. Rushton, J. Harris,
M. Lloyd and J. Wann and published in _Current Biology_ (1998).

The aim of this study was to determine what "cue" people use to
"guide" walking to a target. Two possibilities were considered:
1) focus of expansion (FoE) and 2) retinal target location.

I think that you nicely summarized the article,with the exception of
retinal location, see my response to Bill's query. Again,
the predictions were percieved location of the object (headed to) relative
to midline--very similar to to what Bill's proposal sounds like--versus
center of optic flow which is an object-relative construct.

However, I disagree with your conclusion.

Superficially, it looks like Rushton et al have done something
like a test for the controlled variable.

Since as you say:

They came up with some
hypotheses about the variable under control (FoE, retinal
location); manipulated a variable (prisms off/on) that would be
a disturbance if the subject were controlling one variable
(retinal location) but not the other (FoE). They even measured
(indirectly) one of the hypothetical controlled variables
(angle of target relative to fixation; they called it alpha)
and measured the effect of the disturbance on this variable
(they correctly predicted that alpha should be kept close
to 16 degrees -- the displacement angle of the prism glasses --
if alpha is under control; see their Figure 2b).

and then..

In fact, there is no test for a controlled variable in this
study. Rushton et al's results show what people _don't_ control
not what they _do_ control.

This seems to be a stretch on how to classify Tests and Not-Tests.

Presumably, refuting potential hypothesis is a good thing. And if the
alternative A is better than the refuted hypothesis then until a better
alternative is offered "A" wins.
The authors made two predictions about what would happen if persons
stabilized one of two visual aspect while locomoting
to an object. They refuted one (Optic flow) and for the other they
conflate the spread of the data into an average. There are independent
reasons, the Test or no Test, for and against nomothetic research so it is
not The crux. What is critical is that they 1) refuted one hypothesis and
kept another as one accounted for the data better than the other
and 2) this determination was based on a methodology that selectively
disturbed the potential variables. That one was clearly wrong
while the other was not too hot means nothing as to the structure of the
Test, only the range of current hypotheses.

i.

i.kurtzer (990419.2145)

[From Bill Powers (990418.17630 MDT)]

i.kurtzer (990418.2100)

>People have already determined where directions of foveation and how
>changing retinal locations per se do not interfere with navigating as
>these are integrated with neck proprioceptive signals to give body
>relative signals as measured physiologically and standard approaches to
>targets as measured behaviorally.

Head, neck, torso, hip, and leg, I presume.

Presumably, though I don't know of that research.

>Deviated relative to the eye-proprioceptive map. The eye in the center of
>its orbit now is exposed to the image who center is shifted Xdegrees away
>from the fovea, where it would normally fall.

If the person changes direction of walking, the eye can be in the center of
its orbit with the image of the target appearing to be straight ahead
(foveated). The objective targer would be deviated, of course, but it's the
_appearance_ of the target's direction that is under control. The target
would deviate only until the person could change the direction of walking.
Actually, I suspect that the target would be instantly foveated by turning
the eyes and head, and then the direction of walking would be altered until
the body segments came into mutual alignment in the subjective
"straight-ahead" direction.

I will send you the paper as this sounds like your recapitulating the
hypothesis object-relative to midline.

>> But again, why
>> guess? It would be a rather simple matter to determine where the person is
>> looking, so why wasn't that done?
>
>Where they are looking is not so simple when you have a creature moving
>around. If they are sitting then you use a magnetic coil as they have for
>20 plus years. For here it was irrelevant.

At least a rough estimate could be made from video closeups taken from
beyond the position of the target. And what about subjective reports?.

Subjectively, the persons were unaware of anything odd. Nothing else was
reported though I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.

i.

[From Rick Marken (990418.1710)]

Bill Powers (990418.1241 MDT)--

A few questions about the paper from Isaac that you describe.

It's weird for Rushton et. al. to talk about "retinal target
location"

Actually, that's just my way of describing it. What Rushton
et al talk about is "target-locomotor direction error". That's
what alpha is. What they did was measure the subject's
instantaneous direction of locomotion (tangent to the curve of
the subject's movement to the target at various points ) based on
the digitized image taken from above. The angle of this tangent
line relative to a line to the target is angle alpha. This angle
is proportional to the angle between direction of gaze and actual
location of the target under the assumption that the eye is
"fixed in it's socket" and pointed in the direction of locomotion.
That's why I said that the hypothesized controlled variable was
"foveated target image"; if the subject is fixated in the direction
of locomotion (as Rushton et al assumed) then the target image is
foveated when alpha equals the angle of the prism.

Rushton et al do not show the actual walking paths subjects took
to the target; they simply report that "the trajectories taken
by participants followed a curved path similar to the perceived
direction prediction [and inconsistent with the straight path
prediction made by the FoE model -- RM]". In fact, these trajectories
could not have looked _exactly_ like the predicted trajectors for
"direction prediction" (Figure 2a) because the alpha data they present
are not consistent with such trajectories. The only data Rushton et
al show are the calculated values of alpha (target-locomotion
direction error) over the course of a walk to the target by 5
different "participants". It is these data (in Figure 3) that are
inconsistent with the conclusion that alpha is controlled. Angle
alpha should be nearly constant (at 16 degrees) thoughout the course
of a walk to the target if alpha is the controlled variable. In
fact, Figure 3 shows that for some subjects alpha varies by nearly
30 degrees over the course of the walk; for others it varies as
little as 10 degrees.

I now see that there is one subject who kept alpha nearly constant
at 14 degrees (+- 4 degrees). So one subject acted as though s/he
might be controlling alpha, but more testing is clearly needed.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken/

[From Rick Marken (990418.1812)]

i.kurtzer (990419.2110) --

What is critical is that they 1) refuted one hypothesis and
kept another as one accounted for the data better than the other
and 2) this determination was based on a methodology that selectively
disturbed the potential variables. That one was clearly wrong
while the other was not too hot means nothing as to the structure
of the Test, only the range of current hypotheses.

So they did the test because they selectively disturbed "potential
variables" and, thus, managed to eliminate one variable (FoE) as
a possible cause of walking behavior?

I think the Rushton et al study (like many other conventional
research studies) is a good _start_ for someone who wants to study
controlled variables (in the case of Rushton et al, it's a good
start for studying what people control when they walk to targets).
The Rushton et al results suggest that the controlled variable
when people walk to a target is something more _like_ target-
locomotor direction difference than FoE. Now it's time to go forth
and do the research properly, knowing that what you are looking
for is the _perceptual_ variable(s) that the subject is controlling
when s/he walks to a target.

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken/

[From Bill Powers (990419.0744 MDT)]

Rick Marken (990418.1710)--

Rushton et al do not show the actual walking paths subjects took
to the target; they simply report that "the trajectories taken
by participants followed a curved path similar to the perceived
direction prediction [and inconsistent with the straight path
prediction made by the FoE model -- RM]". In fact, these trajectories
could not have looked _exactly_ like the predicted trajectors for
"direction prediction" (Figure 2a) because the alpha data they present
are not consistent with such trajectories. The only data Rushton et
al show are the calculated values of alpha (target-locomotion
direction error) over the course of a walk to the target by 5
different "participants". It is these data (in Figure 3) that are
inconsistent with the conclusion that alpha is controlled. Angle
alpha should be nearly constant (at 16 degrees) thoughout the course
of a walk to the target if alpha is the controlled variable. In
fact, Figure 3 shows that for some subjects alpha varies by nearly
30 degrees over the course of the walk; for others it varies as
little as 10 degrees.

That's a lot of variation. I would guess we're seeing a lot of
reorganization here. It's hard to say anything about behavioral
organization while reorganization is going on. I'd like to see the data
after ten or twenty trials.

Isaac claims that subjects noticed nothing unusual. They may not have
wanted stay around and talk about it, but if they noticed nothing unusual
about seeing the world shifted 16 degrees to one side of the normal
midline, they must have been drunk or sick.

And of course Phil Runkel's comment is right on the mark. The term
"subjects" should _never_ be used unless it can truthfully be preceded by
"all," as in "all subjects maintained a path on a 16 degree spiral."

Best,

Bill P.

[From Rick Marken (990419.1000)]

Bill Powers (990419.0744 MDT)--

That's a lot of variation.

It's even worse than that. I just noticed that the alpha measures
plotted in Figure 3 are actually within subject averages; each
point represents the average alpha measure for several contiguous
points in the subject's path. This means that the variation of
alpha measures over the course of a subject's walk to the target
is even greater than the already large variations shown by the
points Figure 3.

I would guess we're seeing a lot of reorganization here.

That's my guess too. But who knows? The subject's walked to
the target _at least_ four times: once with 16 degree left
displacement prisms; once with 16 degree right displacement
prisms; once with 14 degree left displacement freznel lenses and
once with 14 degree right displacement freznel lenses. The data
for these four trials are plotted for each subject but there
is no record of which walk was done first, second, etc and
whether there was any practice.

Of course, the researchers conceive of this research as being
aimed at determining the variable that _controls_ (guides)
locomotion to a target; they were certainly not intentionally
looking for the variable that was _controlled by_ behavior. So
they did what Isaac thinks was a test for the controlled variable
(testing to see if FoE was controlling locomotion) by testing for
what they thought was the _controlling_ variable; the variable
that controls locomotion. They did this by manipulating an
independent variable (optical displacement) that should _not_
have an effect on the dependent variable (walking in a straight
path) if FoE is the cause of that behavior. They found that this IV
(disturbance) _did_ have an effect on behavior so they concluded
that FoE was not the cause of locomotion (and Isaac sees this as
equivalent to finding that FoE is not a controlled variable)

I agree that the Rushton et al study is kind of unusual for
conventional research; they were testing to see if a variable
(FoE) _causes_ behavior by looking for _lack of effect_ of
an IV (optical displacement) on a DV. I wonder whether or not
Rushton et al would have published their results if it had turned
out that there was, indeed, _no effect_ of the prisms on walking
(there was no effect of IV on DV). Such a lack of effect would
have been _positive_ evidence that FoE _is_, indeed, the cause
of locomotion to a target. Publishing such a "non-effect" in a
conventional journal would be quite remarkable.

All this leads me to wonder if it really matters whether one
conceives of perceptual variables as _controlled by_ or _in
control of_ behavior. Isaac claims that Rushton et al were able to
show that FoE is not a controlled variable (a variable _controlled
by_ behavior) even though they conceived of FoE as a controlling
variable (a variable that is _in control of_ behavior). So they
were able (according to Isaac) to do _the test_ in the context of
a cause-effect model of behavior. So my question is "Does it matter
(in terms of studying behavior) whether one thinks of perception
as controlled by behavior (as in PCT) or in control of behavior
(as in conventional psychology)? And if it does matter, then why
does it matter?

Best

Rick

···

--
Richard S. Marken Phone or Fax: 310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken

[From Bruce Gregory (990419.1335 EDT)]

Rick Marken (990419.1000)

So my question is "Does it matter
(in terms of studying behavior) whether one thinks of perception
as controlled by behavior (as in PCT) or in control of behavior
(as in conventional psychology)? And if it does matter, then why
does it matter?

Does the temperature determine the behavior of the furnace? Or does the
thermostat-furnace system determine the temperature? Does it matter? And
if it does matter, why does it matter?

Bruce Gregory

[From Bruce Gregory (990419.1455 EDT)]

Bruce Gregory (990419.1335 EDT)

Does the temperature determine the behavior of the furnace?
Or does the
thermostat-furnace system determine the temperature? Does it
matter? And
if it does matter, why does it matter?

Up to your old tricks again, I see. You know perfectly well that the
question of what determines what only matters when you are trying to
construct a model to explain the behavior. It's a lot easier to
construct a model in which the thermostat-furnace system controls the
temperature than it is to construct a model in which the temperature
controls the thermostat-furnace system.

Bruce Gregory