[From Richard Thurman (940223.1315)]
Rick Marken (940218.0845)
Well... before you scamper back to your clay-like mud to seethe at being
scolded by all the ST'ers ... before you have time to officially renounce
all ties with the religious left of PCT ... Before St. Paul recognizes
one of his kindred and decides to invite you (instead of one of his moile
friends) over for dinner ... I've still got a question about feedback.
This misconception occurs because in the phrase "provide feedback" the word
"feedback" is being used as a synonym for "perception"; a " grade", for
example, is often called "feedback" but it is really a perception. In
PCT we recognize that perception is _always there_. It is not "provided"
by output or by the environment -- it is a VARIALE whose state is
influenced by system outputs and environmental variables.
The "grade" example reminded me of the severe public chastisement the
Tom Hancock received when he posted some information about his
'feedback' studies last July. Well -- I thought it was severe anyhow.
I was on vacation and did not feel like responding at the time -- too
much fishing going on to get real serious. He was finally able to
resolve things by calling the 'feedback' a piece of 'post response
information' or something like that. This seemed pretty contrived
considering we all knew what he was talking about. In instruction and
in learning -- teachers, coaches, and lovers 'provide feedback' to us
by telling us how we are doing.
Isn't this type of 'feedback' the same Gary C. and Bill P. were talking
about last August when they wrote of coaching speed skaters. As I remember,
they said speed skaters must achieve a very awkward body profile in order to
skate fast. They must crouch lower and more forward than is comfortable
(or sane). I believe Bill said that coaching this from a PCT perspective
would include yelling "Lower" to the skater until he or she achieved the
perfect position. Then the skater would gradually create and hone a
perceptual control system that would replace the coach's 'feedback.' (If
this is not what you said Gary & Bill -- or if it is not what you meant
-- my apologies. It is what I thought you were saying.)
Isn't this the way teaching and learning works? It seems to me that
students are not necessarily controlling for learning a particular subject,
nor are they controlling for learning how to do a particular task.
Rather, many students are actually controlling for the perception of a
grade, or for perceiving the coach yelling "Thats It!" In this manner
the teacher, or coach is part of the feedback function.
Is this coherent? How am I doing? I need some feedback (oops--input)!
Rich
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Richard Thurman
Air Force Armstrong Lab
6001 S. Power Rd. BLDG. 558
Mesa AZ. 85206-0904
(602) 988-6561
Thurman@hrlban1.aircrew.asu.edu
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