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CSGnet Archive CSG1993
21

Would love to… Dag, was this a
manuscript you were thinking of reformatting?

Warren

Sent from my iPhone

Hi Warren,

Thanks. Could we get the dispute one on there as well?

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 22 13:30 PST)]

Heavens no. It and the about 100 other pdfs are available to you as is.

They are threads from CSGnet, not papers.

Dag

Regards,
Rupert Young
Mobile: +447795 480387
Moon's Information Technology Limited

Hi Rupert, I have this one
public but not the Dispute document.


http://www.pctweb.org/devilbib.htm

[From Rupert Young (2014.05.21 11.00)]

Thanks. What about the figures?

I’d like to cite this paper but don’t think I can do it unless it is
public. Can it be made available on one of the PCT sites, or can I put it
on mine?

Regards,

Rupert

···

On 22 May 2014, at 13:35, Rupert Young > rupert@moonsit.co.uk > wrote:
At 11:31 AM 5/22/2014, you wrote:
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Rupert Young > rupert@moonsit.co.uk > wrote:
On 21/05/2014 13:27, Warren Mansell wrote:
On 20/05/2014 20:19, Dag Forssell wrote:
[From Dag Forssell (2014 05 20 12:20 PST)]

Is DISPUTE.PCT available on the internet
to reference, and where are figures 5 & 6?

Check out

ftp.pctresources.com/CSGnet_Threads/

User name pctstudent password re5earch!

Best, Dag

–

Dr Warren Mansell

Reader in Psychology

Cognitive Behavioural Therapist & Chartered Clinical
Psychologist

School of Psychological Sciences

Coupland I

University of Manchester

Oxford Road

Manchester M13 9PL

Email:

warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website:

http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

See teamstrial.net for further
information on our trial of CBT for Bipolar Disorders in NW England

The highly acclaimed therapy manual on

A Transdiagnostic Approach to CBT using Method of Levels is available
now.

Check www.pctweb.org for further
information on Perceptual Control Theory

[]

22

Totally up to you Dag, but the document file says it is a conference paper.

Warren

···

On Thursday, May 22, 2014, Dag Forssell csgarchive@pctresources.com wrote:

Would love to… Dag, was this a
manuscript you were thinking of reformatting?

Warren

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 May 2014, at 13:35, Rupert Young > > rupert@moonsit.co.uk > > wrote:

Hi Warren,

Thanks. Could we get the dispute one on there as well?

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 22 13:30 PST)]

Heavens no. It and the about 100 other pdfs are available to you as is.

They are threads from CSGnet, not papers.

Dag

At 11:31 AM 5/22/2014, you wrote:

Regards,
Rupert Young
Mobile: +447795 480387
Moon's Information Technology Limited

Hi Rupert, I have this one
public but not the Dispute document.


http://www.pctweb.org/devilbib.htm

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Rupert Young > > rupert@moonsit.co.uk > > wrote:

On 21/05/2014 13:27, Warren Mansell > wrote:
[From Rupert Young (2014.05.21 11.00)]

Thanks. What about the figures?

I’d like to cite this paper but don’t think I can do it unless it is
public. Can it be made available on one of the PCT sites, or can I put it
on mine?

Regards,

Rupert

[From Dag Forssell (2014 05 20 12:20 PST)]

On 20/05/2014 20:19, Dag Forssell > wrote:

Is DISPUTE.PCT available on the internet
to reference, and where are figures 5 & 6?

Check out

ftp.pctresources.com/CSGnet_Threads/

User name pctstudent password re5earch!

Best, Dag

–

Dr Warren Mansell

Reader in Psychology

Cognitive Behavioural Therapist & Chartered Clinical
Psychologist

School of Psychological Sciences

Coupland I

University of Manchester

Oxford Road

Manchester M13 9PL

Email:

warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website:

http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

See teamstrial.net for further
information on our trial of CBT for Bipolar Disorders in NW England

The highly acclaimed therapy manual on

A Transdiagnostic Approach to CBT using Method of Levels is available
now.

Check www.pctweb.org for further
information on Perceptual Control Theory

–
Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Psychology
Cognitive Behavioural Therapist & Chartered Clinical Psychologist
School of Psychological Sciences
Coupland I
University of Manchester

Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

See teamstrial.net for further information on our trial of CBT for Bipolar Disorders in NW England

The highly acclaimed therapy manual on A Transdiagnostic Approach to CBT using Method of Levels is available now.

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

23

Totally up to you Dag, but the
document file says it is a conference paper.

Warren

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 23 08:40 PST)]

You are right. Ifigured they were all threads. Read
the end, not the beginning.

I do not recall what Bill meant by the editorial board. Most likely a
limited mail list to avoid the ever-present gadflies. It does not appear
on CSGnet.

I shall have a look in my conference folders tomorrow. Granny-nanny
today.

Anyone else have hard copy? Send me a scan :).

I`ll ask Greg Williams too.

I too interpret the reference to Wiener as pointing to a
diagram.

Sure, I`ll format it for posting when we sort this out.

Best, Dag

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 22 13:30 PST)]

Heavens no. It and the about 100 other pdfs are available to you as
is.
They are threads from CSGnet, not papers.

Dag

Would love to… Dag, was this a manuscript you were thinking of
reformatting?
Warren

Sent from my iPhone

Hi Warren,

Thanks. Could we get the dispute one on there as well?

Regards,

Rupert Young
Mobile: +447795 480387
Moon’s Information Technology Limited

Hi Rupert, I have this one public but not the Dispute document.

http://www.pctweb.org/devilbib.htm

[From Rupert Young (2014.05.21 11.00)]
Thanks. What about the figures?
I’d like to cite this paper but don’t think I can do it unless it is
public. Can it be made available on one of the PCT sites, or can I put it
on mine?

Regards,

Rupert

···

On Thursday, May 22, 2014, Dag Forssell > < > csgarchive@pctresources.com> wrote:
At 01:44 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:
At 11:31 AM 5/22/2014, you wrote:
On 22 May 2014, at 13:35, Rupert Young rupert@moonsit.co.uk > wrote:
On 21/05/2014 13:27, Warren Mansell wrote:
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Rupert Young > rupert@moonsit.co.uk wrote:
On 20/05/2014 20:19, Dag Forssell wrote:
[From Dag Forssell (2014 05 20 12:20 PST)]

Is DISPUTE.PCT available on the internet
to reference, and where are figures 5 & 6?
Check out

ftp.pctresources.com/CSGnet_Threads/
User name pctstudent password re5earch!
Best, Dag

24

Cheers Dag!

···

On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Dag Forssell csgarchive@pctresources.com wrote:

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 23 08:40 PST)]

You are right. Ifigured they were all threads. Read
the end, not the beginning.

I do not recall what Bill meant by the editorial board. Most likely a
limited mail list to avoid the ever-present gadflies. It does not appear
on CSGnet.

I shall have a look in my conference folders tomorrow. Granny-nanny
today.

Anyone else have hard copy? Send me a scan :).

I`ll ask Greg Williams too.

I too interpret the reference to Wiener as pointing to a
diagram.

Sure, I`ll format it for posting when we sort this out.

Best, Dag

At 01:44 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:

Totally up to you Dag, but the
document file says it is a conference paper.

Warren

On Thursday, May 22, 2014, Dag Forssell
<
csgarchive@pctresources.com> wrote:

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 22 13:30 PST)]

Heavens no. It and the about 100 other pdfs are available to you as
is.
They are threads from CSGnet, not papers.

Dag

At 11:31 AM 5/22/2014, you wrote:

Would love to… Dag, was this a manuscript you were thinking of
reformatting?
Warren

Sent from my iPhone

On 22 May 2014, at 13:35, Rupert Young rupert@moonsit.co.uk
wrote:

Hi Warren,

Thanks. Could we get the dispute one on there as well?

Regards,

Rupert Young
Mobile: +447795 480387
Moon’s Information Technology Limited

On 21/05/2014 13:27, Warren Mansell
wrote:

Hi Rupert, I have this one public but not the Dispute document.

http://www.pctweb.org/devilbib.htm

On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Rupert Young
rupert@moonsit.co.uk wrote:
[From Rupert Young (2014.05.21 11.00)]
Thanks. What about the figures?
I’d like to cite this paper but don’t think I can do it unless it is
public. Can it be made available on one of the PCT sites, or can I put it
on mine?

Regards,

Rupert

[From Dag Forssell (2014 05 20 12:20 PST)]

On 20/05/2014 20:19, Dag Forssell
wrote:
Is DISPUTE.PCT available on the internet
to reference, and where are figures 5 & 6?
Check out

ftp.pctresources.com/CSGnet_Threads/
User name pctstudent password re5earch!
Best, Dag

–
Dr Warren Mansell
Reader in Psychology
Cognitive Behavioural Therapist & Chartered Clinical Psychologist
School of Psychological Sciences

Coupland I
University of Manchester
Oxford Road
Manchester M13 9PL
Email: warren.mansell@manchester.ac.uk

Tel: +44 (0) 161 275 8589

Website: http://www.psych-sci.manchester.ac.uk/staff/131406

See teamstrial.net for further information on our trial of CBT for Bipolar Disorders in NW England

The highly acclaimed therapy manual on A Transdiagnostic Approach to CBT using Method of Levels is available now.

Check www.pctweb.org for further information on Perceptual Control Theory

25

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 23 08:40
PST)]

You are right. I figured they were all threads. Read the end, not the
beginning.

I do not recall what Bill meant by the editorial board. Most likely a
limited mail list to avoid the ever-present gadflies. It does not appear
on CSGnet.

I shall have a look in my conference folders tomorrow. Granny-nanny
today.

Anyone else have hard copy? Send me a scan :).

I`ll ask Greg Williams too.

I too interpret the reference to Wiener as pointing to a
diagram.

Sure, I`ll format it for posting when we sort this out.

Best, Dag

Totally up to you Dag, but the
document file says it is a conference paper.

Warren

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 22 13:30 PST)]
Heavens no. It and the about 100 other pdfs are available to you as
is.
They are threads from CSGnet, not papers.
Dag

Would love to… Dag, was this a manuscript you were thinking of
reformatting?
Warren

Sent from my iPhone

Hi Warren,
Thanks. Could we get the dispute one on there as
well?

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 25 17:20 PDT)]

I have now found my folder from the 1993 CSG conference.

The “The Dispute Over Control Theory” paper presented by Bill
Powers was a print by Bill, corrected by hand, then photocopied. The
handout looks very much like the file you want fixed and formatted.

I can undertake to redraw the figures. I can go to the Stanford Library
and get a scan of Cybernetics, p. 132, Fig. 5. My guess would be that
“the engineering psychologist _________________” refers to

Arturo Rosenblueth, but one should
not guess, methinketh.

Can anyone now interested in this undertake other
clarifications and research?

Reference is made to discussions on CSGnet. I’ve just noticed that
July 1993 was not included in the CSGnet archive. I have a pdf from that
month which I will add to the archive.

For the attached files, I now made the same correction Bill did by hand,
changing “is is” to “it is”. I replaced underscores
indicating italics with italics. Ran spell check and made one correction.
Looked over page breaks so they fall OK.

Who will work with me on this project? If nobody, I cannot promise
miracles.

Best, Dag

Regards,

Rupert Young
Mobile: +447795 480387
Moon’s Information Technology Limited

Hi Rupert, I have this one public but not the Dispute document.

http://www.pctweb.org/devilbib.htm

[From Rupert Young (2014.05.21 11.00)]
Thanks. What about the figures?
I’d like to cite this paper but don’t think I can do it unless it is
public. Can it be made available on one of the PCT sites, or can I put it
on mine?

Regards,

Rupert

Dispute_PCT.doc (79 KB)

Dispute_PCT.pdf (40.5 KB)

···

At 01:44 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:

On Thursday, May 22, 2014, Dag Forssell > > < > > csgarchive@pctresources.com> wrote:
At 11:31 AM 5/22/2014, you > > wrote:

On 22 May 2014, at 13:35, Rupert Young rupert@moonsit.co.uk > > > wrote:
On 21/05/2014 13:27, Warren Mansell wrote:
On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Rupert Young > rupert@moonsit.co.uk wrote:
On 20/05/2014 20:19, Dag Forssell wrote:
[From Dag Forssell (2014 05 20 12:20 PST)]

Is DISPUTE.PCT available on the internet
to reference, and where are figures 5 & 6?
Check out

ftp.pctresources.com/CSGnet_Threads/
User name pctstudent password re5earch!
Best, Dag

26

[From Rupert Young (2014.05.26 12.00)]

The issue, from my original query, is not with respect to any figure from Cybernetics. But to two missing figures (5 and 6) to which Bill refers in the text. If those are not found there is probably not much point rebuilding the paper.
Regards,
Rupert

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 25 17:20 PDT)]

I have now found my folder from the 1993 CSG conference.

The "The Dispute Over Control Theory" paper presented by Bill Powers was a print by Bill, corrected by hand, then photocopied. The handout looks very much like the file you want fixed and formatted.

I can undertake to redraw the figures. I can go to the Stanford Library and get a scan of Cybernetics, p. 132, Fig. 5. My guess would be that "the engineering psychologist _________________" refers to Arturo Rosenblueth, but one should not guess, methinketh.

Can anyone now interested in this undertake other clarifications and research?
Reference is made to discussions on CSGnet. I've just noticed that July 1993 was not included in the CSGnet archive. I have a pdf from that month which I will add to the archive.

For the attached files, I now made the same correction Bill did by hand, changing "is is" to "it is". I replaced underscores indicating italics with italics. Ran spell check and made one correction. Looked over page breaks so they fall OK.

Who will work with me on this project? If nobody, I cannot promise miracles.

Best, Dag

[Dag Forssell (2014 05 23 08:40 PST)]

You are right. I figured they were all threads. Read the end, not the beginning.

I do not recall what Bill meant by the editorial board. Most likely a limited mail list to avoid the ever-present gadflies. It does not appear on CSGnet.

I shall have a look in my conference folders tomorrow. Granny-nanny today.
Anyone else have hard copy? Send me a scan :).

I`ll ask Greg Williams too.

I too interpret the reference to Wiener as pointing to a diagram.

Sure, I`ll format it for posting when we sort this out.

Best, Dag

Totally up to you Dag, but the document file says it is a conference paper.
Warren

  [Dag Forssell (2014 05 22 13:30 PST)]

  Heavens no. It and the about 100 other pdfs are available to you as is.

  They are threads from CSGnet, not papers.

  Dag

  Would love to... Dag, was this a manuscript you were thinking of reformatting?

  Warren

  Sent from my iPhone

  Hi Warren,
  Thanks. Could we get the dispute one on there as well?

  Regards,

<dd>Rupert Young

</dd><dd>Mobile: +447795 480387

</dd><dd>Moon's Information Technology Limited</dd>>>>

  Hi Rupert, I have this one public but not the Dispute document.

  <http://www.pctweb.org/devilbib.htm&gt; http://www.pctweb.org/devilbib.htm

    [From Rupert Young (2014.05.21 11.00)]
    Thanks. What about the figures?
    I'd like to cite this paper but don't think I can do it unless it is public. Can it be made available on one of the PCT sites, or can I put it on mine?

    Regards,

<dd>Rupert

</dd>>>>

···

On 26/05/2014 02:05, Dag Forssell wrote:

At 01:44 AM 5/23/2014, you wrote:

On Thursday, May 22, 2014, Dag Forssell <<mailto:csgarchive@pctresources.com> csgarchive@pctresources.com> wrote:
  At 11:31 AM 5/22/2014, you wrote:

  On 22 May 2014, at 13:35, Rupert Young <mailto:rupert@moonsit.co.uk><rupert@moonsit.co.uk> wrote:

  On 21/05/2014 13:27, Warren Mansell wrote:

  On Wed, May 21, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Rupert Young <mailto:rupert@moonsit.co.uk><rupert@moonsit.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/05/2014 20:19, Dag Forssell wrote:

    [From Dag Forssell (2014 05 20 12:20 PST)]

    Is DISPUTE.PCT available on the internet to reference, and where are figures 5 & 6?

    Check out <ftp://ftp.pctresources.com/CSGnet_Threads/&gt; ftp.pctresources.com/CSGnet_Threads/
    User name pctstudent password re5earch!
    Best, Dag