[From Martin Lewitt (2008 1207.0741MST)]
I am extremely sympathetic to this persons market ideals.
Markets are remarkable emergent phenomena of human
societies. But perhaps this poster should consider whether
the economy, or collective market, or the individuals involved
deserve the consequences of a system that creates its money
through a pyramid of credit and leverage if those consequences
can be avoided?
It wasn't a pure market to begin with, and that market was
distorted not just by the system of money creation, and not
just by mark to market requirements, but also by tax policies
that favor leverage and debt over equity, and that favor
consumption over savings, e.g., double
taxation of capital gains and dividendes while interest is
single taxed, progressive taxation, higher taxation of businesses
and business inputs, artificially low interest rates incentivising
borrowing over saving, etc.
Why should the collapse of a fiat money supply, be allowed to
propagate into the destruction of economic growth and the
pain of layoffs and a recession, accelerated by ill advised government
policies be visited upon the people. Does he think the people
deserve to be punished for how they voted?
The market is such a remarkable and persistent emergent
phenomena that there is a tendency to almost regard it as
"natural", and thus justify whatever happens as the "natural
consequences" that shouldn't be interfered with. However,
accepting it as a natural arbiter of morality doesn't take into
account how artificial some of the distortions and instabilities
introduced into the market were. It also allows the consequences
to extend far beyond those responsible for the instabilities, to
innocent bystanders. It allows forces to sweep the moral and
productive away along with the undeserving, by whatever your
definition.
Certainly any responses, should be market oriented and allow
the market to pick winners and losers rather than government
and central planners which do a notoriously bad job. But using
tools to stem the tidal waye on monetary and credit destruction,
and eliminate the positive feedback loop of layoffs should not
be rejected on its face. I favor printing money and distributing
it broadly to counteract the deleveraging monetary destruction,
working with markets over just trying ot outlaw market components
such as layoffs and worker mobility.
-- MartinL
···
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "nickols@att.net" <nickols@ATT.NET>
[From Fred Nickols (2008.12.06.0712 MST)]
Here's another post from the SD list. This one's not so nice.
--
Regards,
Fred Nickols
Managing Partner
Distance Consulting, LLC
nickols@att.net
www.nickols.us
"Assistance at A Distance"
-------------- Forwarded Message: --------------
From: "SDMAIL John Voyer" <voyer@usm.maine.edu>
To: System Dynamics Mailing List <sdmail@lists.systemdynamics.org>
Cc: System Dynamics Mailing List <sdmail@lists.systemdynamics.org>
Subject: REPLY PCT and an economic emergency (SD7267)
Date: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 13:31:14 +0000
>
> Posted by "John Voyer" <voyer@usm.maine.edu>
>
> Bill Powers's noticing of positive feedbacks in the economy is not exactly
news.
>
> Similarly, his call for a working model of the economy is, what, 20-30 years
> behind the times. The National Model at MIT has probably already done many of
> the things he calls for.
>
> The undertone of his letter--that "somebody has to do something about
this!"--is
> something that I, personally, consider dangerous. Much of what we are
> experiencing now is because policymakers tried to manipulate the free market
> system, e.g., "mark to market" rules, real interest rates that went negative,
> etc. There might be ways to reduce those oscillation-enhancing policies, but
> I'd
> prefer to see the free market send information in undistorted ways and
> straighten
> itself out.
>
> So, long term, the best way to get rid of these "bad" positive feedbacks is to
> let the system act to straighten itself out in an undistorted way.
>
> John Voyer
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------
>
> John J. Voyer, Ph.D.
> Associate Dean for Academic Affairs and Accreditation
> and Professor of Business Administration
> School of Business
> University of Southern Maine
> Posted by "John Voyer" <voyer@usm.maine.edu>
> posting date Sat, 06 Dec 2008 19:22:00 -0500
> _______________________________________________