Rick stop confusing CSGnet. Stop with RCT nonsense.
···
From: Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2018 7:00 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: The Achievement Path
[Rick Marken 2018-05-12_10:00:05]
[From Fred Nickols (2018.05.11.0713 ET)]
FN: Well, Rick, Iâll say to you what I said to Boris: Bill Powers liked it and thatâs good enough for me.
HB : Dear Fred. It’s sometimes hard to say what Bill thought with his PCT. But as I said many times he changed his mind sometimes. Its’ on us to study his literature and find out what is really PCT. I’d say that most of his PCT literature talk about PCT which can be represented by his diagram LCS III and his definitions of control loop (B:CP). It would be good if we achieve agreemant what is representing PCT. Than it would be easy to decide what was good enough for Bill.
RM: You mean he liked what you describe here as “The Achievement Path”. I’d be interested to know what Bill liked about it. Maybe that would help me understand why you think it has obvious and important links to PCT.
HB : You are interested to know what Bill liked about .
PCT Definitions of control loop :
Bill P (B:CP):
- CONTROL : Achievement and maintenance of a preselected state in the controlling system, through actions on the environment that also cancel the effects of disturbances.
Bill P (B:CP):
- OUTPUT FUNCTION : The portion of a system that converts the magnitude or state of a signal inside the system into a corresponding set of effects on the immediate environment of the system
Bill P (LCS III): the output function shown in it’s own box represents thee means this system has for causing changes in it’s environment.
Bill P (LCS III):
- FEED-BACK FUNCTION : The box represents the set of physical laws, properties, arrangements, linkages, by which the action of this system feeds-back to affect its own input, the controlled variable. That’s what feed-back means : it’s an effect of a system’s output on it’s own input.
Bill P (B:CP) :
- INPUT FUNCTION : The portion of a system that receives signals or stimuli from outside the system, and generates a perceptual signal that is some function of the received signals or stimuli.
Bill P (B:CP) :
- COMPARATOR : The portion of control system that computes the magnitude and direction of mismatch between perceptual and reference signal.
Bill P (B:CP)
- ERROR : The discrepancy between a perceptual signal and a reference signal, which drives a control systemâs output function. The discrepancy between a controlled quantity and itâs present reference level, which causes observable behavior.
Bill P (B:CP) :
- ERROR SIGNAL : A signal indicating the magnitude and direction of error.
RM: Actually, I do see a link. Your description of adjusting the thermostat to make your wife more comfortable is a nice description of an informal version of the test for the controlled variable.
Boris
Fred Nickols
From: Richard Marken (rsmarken@gmail.com via csgnet Mailing List) csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 8:19 PM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Re: The Achievement Path
[Rick Marken 2018-05-10_17:16:54]
Fred Nickols (2018.05.10.0850 ET)
This month’s Knowledge Workers column is now available at
https://tinyurl.com/yadul6f4 A pdf version is also available at
http://www.nickols.us/The_Achievement_Path.pdf The Achievement Path is the
path from your direct, immediate actions to the results you seek.
FN: FWIW, I think this monthâs column has some pretty obvious and reasonably important links to PCT. But, Iâll yâall be the judges of that.
RM: The Achievement Path that you describe does not exist in PCT. I’m afraid you have succumbed to the mathematical-logical (also called the “theory first” r “theory only”) approach to PCT. In the scientific/engineering (also called the “phenomena first”) approach to PCT, what you call the “proximate” variable is the controlled variable – the variable aspect of the environment that is controlled — and what you call the “ultimate” variable is the perceptual signal – an analog of the variable aspect of the environment that is controlled. So the controlled variable and perceptual signal are the same variable.
HB : Perceptual signal is not theoretical variable. It can be measured very precisely. It’s theoretical only in your head where you think that “perceptual signal” is PCV (Perceptual Control Variable). This is Theoretical construct which derives from RCT (Ricks’ Control Theory) where :
- Behavior is Control
- There is some "controlled aspect of environment
You never proved (so it’s not scientific) that “Behavior is Control”. You are theorizing and imagining and of course confusin gCSGnet and public
RM : The perceptual signal is a theoretical variable that accounts for the observed fact that the controlled variable is controlled.
HB : Where did you take this construct from ? RCT collection. What kind of nonsense is this ? Everything what Rick observes is fact. Vauu. Superman Ricky. Only he knows what is really in reality.
Boris
Best
Rick
–
Richard S. Marken
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.â?
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery
–
Richard S. Marken
"Perfection is achieved not when you have nothing more to add, but when you
have nothing left to take away.â?
–Antoine de Saint-Exupery