[From Rick Marken (2006.11.12.1100)]
Bjorn Simonsen (2006.11.12, 10:27 EUST)
I am trying to understand what is out there I Real Reality. What is it from the thing Group that arrives via Disturbances to our sensors and what is it that comes from our References and that we ascribe to the thing Group out there.
Perceptions are not a function of disturbances, as you can see from Tim's graph. Perceptions are a function of physical variables, called qi in Tim's graph. Disturbances are also physical physical variables; they are called disturbances to the extent that they influence the state of the physical variables on which controlled perceptions depend. In many (most?) cases, disturbance variables are not perceived at all except via their effects on controlled variables. An example is the direction of gaze. We can't (well, I can't) perceive the direction in which we're looking but this variable is certainly a disturbance to what we see. I can see more of a group of people when I'm looking straight at the group than when my gaze wanders to the attractive young lady walking towards me.
When I watch a group e.g. your group of friends barbecuing in the garden it is a Disturbance in the System Diagram.
No. The group -- if it's what you are controlling for seeing -- is qi in the diagram. The movements of individuals in the group are an example of one possible disturbance to the perception of the group.
What is the thing, the Group out there?
My guess is that it's a bunch of people. But that's just my perception. What's really out there only god knows (and will ever know). And since there's no such thing as god, then no one will ever know.
As you said, all we can know about the Group is our perceptions. And they are a result of the Controlled Variables.
Controlled variables _are_ perceptions. Perceptions are not the result of controlled variables. That's just crazy talk;-)
The Controlled Variable is a value composed of the Feedback Effect and the Disturbance. Therefore I think that my perceptions are the nearest I come the Disturbance, the Group.
The CV is a perception dependent on physical variables that are affected by disturbances and the feedback effects of one's own actions.
But my Perceptions are not a one-to-one �copy� of the Group. The Feedback Effect �disturbs� the Disturbance until I perceive what I wish to perceive. Then I am the nearest I can perceive the group as a one-to-one �copy�. This happens often very quickly. When we live through conflicts, we experience perceptions that also are affected by Feedback Effects over time.
Control doesn't make perceptions more accurate (in terms of their correspondence to the physical variables on which they depend); control just makes perceptions match references.
I will for the time being make a pause here.
Me too.
Best
Rick
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