Hierarchy or Holarchy?

just a quickie,

Did Bill ever look into Holarchy?

I’ve been reading a bit of about this here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holarchy
PCT speaks in hierarchy control.
But with so many things inter-connected, what was Bills take on Holarchy?
I see Ervin László (published about 75 books and over 400 papers) was big on this (As was/Is Ken Wilber)
Just something I am curious about Holons / Holarchy the more things seem to make sence to me.
I know PCT has a Hierarchy order within it, but was Holarchy looked into?

Maybe there is some PCT literature out there that mentions Holons etc.
If someone can point me in this direction I would be most interested to read this, or if someone has some thoughts on this also.

[From Bruce Abbott (2015.11.17.1535 EST)]

···

From: John Caines [mailto:johncaines@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 3:21 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Hierarchy or Holarchy?

just a quickie,

Did Bill ever look into Holarchy?

I’ve been reading a bit of about this here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holarchy
PCT speaks in hierarchy control.
But with so many things inter-connected, what was Bills take on Holarchy?
I see Ervin László (published about 75 books and over 400 papers) was big on this (As was/Is Ken Wilber)
Just something I am curious about Holons / Holarchy the more things seem to make sence to me.
I know PCT has a Hierarchy order within it, but was Holarchy looked into?

Maybe there is some PCT literature out there that mentions Holons etc.
If someone can point me in this direction I would be most interested to read this, or if someone has some thoughts on this also.

I’m not really clear what a holarchy is (even after reading the Wikipedia article you cite), but in the HPCT hierarchy, each level of control receives its reference value from the level above it (except for the top level, whose reference level is specified genetically) and sends its output to become the reference signals of the level immediately below it (except for the bottom level (except for the bottom level, whose outputs are glandular secretions or muscle contractions.) This strict organization is necessary because the changes in the controlled perception at one level are the means through which the system at the next higher level controls its own perception. Things get mucked up if lower-level systems can set references for systems above them, of if higher-level systems skip intermediate levels when setting references below them.

Bruce A.

Thanks for your reply Bruce,

Quite hard on Google to find HPCT, found a good page here;
http://www.nwlink.com/~donclark/pct/pct.html

Regarding Holons again, another good short read is here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holon_%28philosophy%29

or longer read;
http://www.integralworld.net/edwards13.html

Koestler says;

  • “Koestler also says holons are autonomous, self-reliant units that possess a degree of independence and handle contingencies without asking
    higher authorities for instructions. These holons are also simultaneously subject to control from one or more of these higher authorities. The first property ensures that holons are stable forms that are able to withstand disturbances, while the latter property signifies that they are intermediate forms, providing a context for the proper functionality for the larger whole.”*

Interesting

Regards

JC

···

On 19 November 2015 at 20:35, Bruce Abbott bbabbott@frontier.com wrote:

[From Bruce Abbott (2015.11.17.1535 EST)]

From: John Caines [mailto:johncaines@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2015 3:21 AM
To: csgnet@lists.illinois.edu
Subject: Hierarchy or Holarchy?

just a quickie,

Did Bill ever look into Holarchy?

I’ve been reading a bit of about this here;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holarchy
PCT speaks in hierarchy control.
But with so many things inter-connected, what was Bills take on Holarchy?
I see Ervin László (published about 75 books and over 400 papers) was big on this (As was/Is Ken Wilber)
Just something I am curious about Holons / Holarchy the more things seem to make sence to me.
I know PCT has a Hierarchy order within it, but was Holarchy looked into?

Maybe there is some PCT literature out there that mentions Holons etc.
If someone can point me in this direction I would be most interested to read this, or if someone has some thoughts on this also.

I’m not really clear what a holarchy is (even after reading the Wikipedia article you cite), but in the HPCT hierarchy, each level of control receives its reference value from the level above it (except for the top level, whose reference level is specified genetically) and sends its output to become the reference signals of the level immediately below it (except for the bottom level (except for the bottom level, whose outputs are glandular secretions or muscle contractions.) This strict organization is necessary because the changes in the controlled perception at one level are the means through which the system at the next higher level controls its own perception. Things get mucked up if lower-level systems can set references for systems above them, of if higher-level systems skip intermediate levels when setting references below them.

Bruce A.