[From Rick Marken (2007.06.05.0810)]
Jim Dundon (06.05.07.0800edt)
Rick,
You have said that "we don't control reference signals we control
perceptions." Did you mean in PCT or in life in general.
In PCT, for sure. In life, too, to the extent that PCT is an accurate
model of life, which , based on my research so far, it is.
This is making me squirm.
I feel your pain;-)
I wanna have some say about my reference signals.
I think you dohave some say about them. "You" in the sense of the
conscious aspect of you. In the hierarchy of control itself, the
setting of lower order references cannot be controlled by higher level
systems (in the sense of being kept at some specified level) or the
higher level system that uses the lower level system to which the
reference is sent will lose control. For example, the higher level
system that is controlling for lifting a book but be able to vary the
reference for the lower level system that exerts the force that lifts
the book so that the book will get lifted regardless of its heft. If
you controlled the reference for the amount of force to be exerted,
some books would not get lifted. So you don't -- can't -- have
control over references in a functioning control hierarchy. But
consciousness obviously can have an influence on what we want (our
references) -- I can arbitrarily decide to exert a certain force on
the table, for example -- but I can't do that while I'm controlling
for lifting books.
Why did you do this?
Why did I do what?
Why can't we do both?
For the reason I gave above. If both lower level references and higher
level perceptions were controllable we would lose control of the
higher level perceptions. This is basically what happens when there is
internal conflict; the conflict virtually ends up "controlling" a
lower level reference, so that it cannot be used by a higher level
system as the means of controlling its perception.
This sounds worse than stimulus response.
Actually, stimulus-response is a part of PCT. When you are
controlling a perception, disturbances to that perception act as
though they were stimuli that cause the compensating output
(response). Stimulus-response is an aspect of control, though it
doesn't happen for the reasons psychologists think it does. There is
no direct causal link from stimulus to response. The appearance of
stimulus-response causality is, according to PCT, the disturbance -
output relationship of control.
Where's the autonomy PCT promises?
PCT doesn't promise autonomy. I think what you might want is
Christianity or Scientology. PCT is an explanation of behavior, not a
promise of salvation. As an explanation of behavior, PCT shows that
people are _both_ autonomous_ and _determined_. It's not a simple
either-or thing.
I have to take orders from one level after the other knowing that the top
level doesn't take orders from anything or anyone.
Yes, the highest level references are the autonomous aspect of the
control hierarchy. From there on down the settings of references
depend, to some extent, on environmental disturbances. Also, the
setting of all higher level references is done autonomously relative
to the setting of lower level references. Autonomy in a control
hierarchy is relative, not absolute. There is also consciousness
involved in this, which may be the only truly autonomous aspect of our
being. It's consciousness that can overcome the relativity of the
hierarchy and decide to do things like starve to death in a hunger
strike or blow one's self up for a cause.
I don't like it, unless......... I am my own hierarchy.
Is this what you are saying? Each of us is his own hierarchy? Is this the
PCT autonomy?
Not really. It's harder to say what I mean than to simply point to the
model and say "see how it works". I recommend that you study my
spreadsheet model of a hierarchy of control systems
(Redirect) to see how hierarchical
control works. Then you can decide what you want to call autonomous vs
determined in that model.
In which case I control all the signals? Not bad!!
The only signals that are controlled (in the technical sense of
control) in a control hierarchy are the perceptual signals. Control,
in the technical sense, means keeping a variable (a signal is a
variable) at a preselected (reference) value, protected from the
effects of disturbance.
Best
Rick
ยทยทยท
--
Richard S. Marken PhD
Lecturer in Psychology UCLA
Statistical Analyst VHA
rsmarken@gmail.com