[From Rick Marken (2003.03.28.1410)]
Bruce Nevin (2003.03.28 14:16 EST)--
I thought the equivocation was between (a) objecting
to Ed's recommendation in his book that teachers use the phrase "I see that
you have chosen ..." and (b) objecting to what teachers actually do. You
tell us now that (b) refers not to RTP teachers, whom you you acknowledge
that you have not observed, but to other teachers whom you have observed:
This is all irrelevant to my objection to the phrase "I see you have chosen". My
objections have nothing to do with whether Ed Ford ever recommended saying,
whether his or any teachers have ever said it or whether anyone has ever said it.
I object to the phrase because I don't like a person who blames others for what
they themselves intend to do. I just heard two recent examples of this. Bush did
it when he said that Saddam himself had chosen to be attacked because he did not
leave Iraq. So Bush said to Saddam the equivalent of "I see you have chosen to be
attacked". In fact, Saddam did not chose to be attacked; Bush chose to attack
Saddam. I just read in the NY Times today that Iraqi resistors were placing
themselves near civilians. A US general was quoted as saying that these resistors
had chosen to inflict any harm that comes to the civilians from US forces. In
other words, the US is telling the Iraqi resisters "I see you have chosen to harm
your compatriots". In fact, the resisters did not chose to hard civilians; the
coalition forces chose to harm the resistors knowing that hurting civilians was an
almost certain side effect.
You also suggest that the phrase is generally used:
>I have problems with the "I see you have chosen.." phrase because it is
>disingenuous, insulting and generally used to evade responsibility.I have never heard it used other than in Ed's book and in our discussions
of it, so I am really kind of surprised to learn that it is generally used.
See my examples above, It may not always be phased in exactly that way but I see
it used all the time. The case of Bush and the general are just two recent
examples. It's a very common way to get out of taking responsibility for your own
controlling. Bush is blaming his despicable behavior on the despicable behavior of
Saddam Hussain. The general is blaming the despicable behavior of the coalition
forces on the despicable behavior of the Iraqi resistance. Once you get tuned in
you can see that this responsibility dodging locution is used all the time.
So in sum we have Ed's recommendation in a book, certain (non-RTP)
teachers, some sort of general usage, and a principle perceived in terms of
imaginary people. It would be easier to understand your argument if you
dealt with each of these separately rather than mixing them all up together
and jumping from one to another.
If you don't understand my argument by now I don't think you are going to
understand it any better, even if I describe a hundred more cases of the use of "I
see you have chosen" or some variant thereof.
Best regards
Rick
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Richard S. Marken, Ph.D.
Senior Behavioral Scientist
The RAND Corporation
PO Box 2138
1700 Main Street
Santa Monica, CA 90407-2138
Tel: 310-393-0411 x7971
Fax: 310-451-7018
E-mail: rmarken@rand.org