[From Rick Marken (960909.2300)]
Chris Cherpas (960909.1302 PT) --
Is there value in saying that a control loop "selects" via an
internal reference?
Yes. I would say that a control loop selects in the sense
that it acts to produce one of many possible results; a
control loop selects a particular result _and_ acts to
insure that that result occurs rather than any other.
In other words, are control loops examples of the "vicarious
selectors" of Donald Campbell's "Evolutionary Epistemology"
I would say "yes" because a control loop is the only organization
we know of that can "select", ie. "choose from a number [variable]
or group by fitness or preference" (Webster's Collegiate). The
"choosing" in a control loop is done by the setting of the
reference signal. What is chosen is a particular value of
an input (perceptual) variable. The setting of the reference
signal specifies which value of this variable is "fit" or
"preferred". A control loop not only selects a result (value
of input), it also makes sure that the selected result actually
occurs; a control loop controls.
The _sense_ I wish to convey is that there is a relationship
between a selectionist view of causality and a control view,
and that people have trouble learning to control for either
for the same reason.
I think it depends on what you mean by a "selectionist view ".
If you mean "DarwinUs hammer " type selection then the
selectionist view is just old-fashioned causality. I think
the word "selection " as in "natural selection" is inappropriate
in this case. A better word would be "filtering". Darwinian
"natural selection" is a passive filtering process where some
organisms get through the filter, to survival, and others donUt.
The filter is the environment. The environment doesnUt really
select in the sense of actively choosing a particular type of
organism for survival and another type for extinction. In
natural selection the configuration of the environmental
"filter" lets some organisms through and not others. The
filtering process is cause-effect.
There is another kind of natural selection that also seems
to occur. This type of selection was described by Cairns,
et al (Nature, 335, 1988, pp 142-145) and it is more
correctly called "selection ". In this kind of selection,
something in each member of a population of organisms
selects certain mutations (actually, the results of certain
mutations) over others. This type of selection is not only
related to the control view of causation -- it _is_ the
control view of causation. Organisms can apparently control,
to some extent, the results of mutational changes in the
nature of themselves.
Anybody have a PCT-based interpretation of how we perceive
uncertainty?
Uncertainty is definitely a perceptual variable. But I
have no idea how it is computed from lower level
perceptions.
What, exactly, is the referent for the term, "perception?"
From the point of view of the person modelling a control
system,a "perception" is a signal carried by an afferent
neuron. From the point of view of the person being modeled,
a perception is an experience, like the sound of a voice or
the sight of a Titian.
Bruce Abbott:
The problem, Dear Richard, is that those of Simon's ideas I
had wished to discuss here are in fact entirely consistent
with those of WTP, even though Simon may have arrived at them
from a different direction.
Me:
Well, it looks like WTP {Bill Powers (960909.1400 MDT)] may
not see it that way
Bruce Abbott (960909.1935 EST) --
You must have a private line to BP -- I haven't seen that
one yet and it's after 7 pm here.
I guess youUve seen Bill Powers (960909.1400 MDT) and the
magnificent Bill Powers (960909.1945 MDT) that followed. But
donUt worry; you can keep using me as the "bad guy ". I just
realized why we always seem to get into fights about the merits
of conventional psychology around this time of year. You just
started school and you have to _teach_ it, right? PCT must be
a difficult disturbance to many of the perceptions you control
(like the perception of the value of the ideas of important
figures in psychology) when teaching psychology, no? Feel free
to take the stress out on me. I understand. You're in a very
tough conflict. I can honestly say "I have _felt_ your pain".
Best
Rick