From [Marc Abrams (2005.10.19.1820)]
In responding to this post I obviously had a number of routes I could take. I hope to explain the logic I am taking here for this reply.
I told Bryan in my last post to please not come on the net and ask me to leave. I told him he had three choices.
Don’t read my posts
He should leave CSGnet
Engage me in a ‘real’ conversation as I defined ‘real’
So I am assuming here that since he
replied to me that he was interested in a real discussion.
If not, I assume he has no respect for me and as such I will reciprocate in kind. I have no tolerance for folks who feel they must control my life.
There are others on this net that would simply walk away, but by doing so you miss a great opportunity to learn a great deal about yourself and others.
I am not interested in ‘winning’ anything here, nor am I interested in making Bryan look bad. We all unfortunately do a good enough job of that on our own. What I am interested in and is the reason I started posting again, is to try and find out about myself and how I cause the defensiveness in others and then how others distort the truth, and do fancy footwork to save face. This experience over the last few days has been invaluable.
In a message dated 10/19/2005 5:27:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bryanth@SOLTEC.NET writes:
[From Bryan Thalhammer (2005.10.191630)]
This is the same game you played with us before when you got
vicious and aggressive in the group.
Is this a question or a statement of ‘fact’?
First, in using “us” when and how do you presume to speak for “us”? I am part of us and you certainly don’t speak for me. I challenge any other person on this net to provide me with an illustration of my “aggressive and viscous” behavior.
Maybe you are referring to this;
“Yes, poor little Ricky has a very difficult time leading his own
life without your supportive concern.”
“Yep Rick, I really suckered you into responding to me. Now go
listen to papa and go have your milk and cookies.”
“Viscious and aggressive”? Hardly, but thank you any way because you shined a light on what you really don’t like and that is my aggressiveness.
You see Bryan, it doesn’t much matter what I say. It is in your head that I am aggressive, and being aggressive is ‘bad’ so I am usually a ‘bad’ person according to you. But you don’t know me at all. You have no clue as to who I am as a person, but that does not stop you from taking one word or phrase someone says like reorganization, and you make a whole load of assertions about that persons character.
You might want to look at why you have problems with aggressive people?
What threat do I pose to you?
Second, you use the word “vicious” without illustrating you claim. If you want to talk with me about something that bothers you about me it might be helpful not to make me defensive.
But I don’t think you really give a hoot about me or anyone else you don’t ‘respect’ so you are not concerned with offending me, nor do you care.
Please tell me why I should give a hoot about you?
Where is the justice or level playing field in that?
Why should I respect you or anything you say or stand for?
I am not buying it this time, and I challenge you to be an mensch.
You don’t have to “buy” anything, and I’m not selling anything. As I just said, why do you think this statement has any meaning for me?
You like using the word mensch as if you have any real understanding of what that word means anymore than you do ad hominem, and reorganization. I am a mensch, and I’m a very king hearted one for even spending this time trying to explain to you why what you espouse is not congruent with how you act.
So why don’t you start acting like a mensch.
Your comments appear to me to be just poking my shoulder, testing
me to see if I will step down to your level.
Yes, and that is truly unfortunate because what if you are wrong? Even in attempting to test you still seem to have the need to be offensive with the “stepping down to my level” remark.
How did you think I would react to that? Again, I don’t think you cared because you have no respect and you show it. Are you unaware that you show it?
What put you on a ‘higher’ level to begin with? You’d be making a few steps up my friend in testing some of your assertions
Nah. I choose not to address any but the false accusation you made and to show what you have said about others lately.
Good, so everything I said was true. Glad we agree on that. The 'false ’ statement you claim I made was not false.
Again, I assert,
Yes, you are very good at asserting. You are a great deal less capable of establishing those assertions as anything other than folly.
because of your consistently aggressive and childish behavior, and the way you treat members of the forum in their times of sorrow, you appear not to be a mensch.
And so I hereby sentence you to… Kiss my ass. See, I can show you an equal amount of a lack of respect. But I’m honest enough to admit I have no respect for you and that I think you are a piece of garbage, and will continue to think so until you stop with your phoniness, and start dealing from the top of the deck.
You seem rather to choose to make this forum difficult (but not impossible) to read.
Don’t kill the messenger, and as I said, DON"T READ MY E_MAIL.
BTW, have you heard the definition of an insane person? It is someone who does the same thing over and over and expects different results.
What does that say about you reading my posts?
I wish you would unsubscribe because you don’t add value, and certainly are a motivation to be cross.
Why don’t you? I try to make contributions. You may disagree with my points of view but at least I have some. Aggressive and all.
What compels you to engage me now? The same as Rick. You feel threatened by what I say, and if you felt my words were horsrshit you would know others would as wll, but like Rick, one thing you did not ralk about was honesty, and for those who do read my posts they know it comes straight.
So the reason you respond to me is too save face, and like Rick, people are not stupid. Regardless of what you, Bill, and Rick might think. Everyone can judge for themselves who is full of shit and who isn’t.
Marc’s most recent inexcusable behavior:
Marc [Marc Abrams (2005.10.19.0612)] wrote:
“Rick has no inner courage…”
“Rick was not open to be influenced. He was only interested in
‘winning’ an argument.”
“Rick has no respect…”
“…Rick had a difficult time trying to ‘win’ an argument instead
of trying to learn something.”
Yeah, the truth is very often difficult and painful to swallow, but inexcusable? I don’t think so.
But thanks, I can see where getting personal
There are things you have said about others in the past, but I
don’t keep a journal, except for the most recent snipes.
Wow, I better check to see if my phone line is tapped.
Do you really think I can take this seriously? Do you really think I care what kind of log you keep?
But do go.
I very non aggressive, non visciuos, but non-the-less most inexcusable;