Returning from a lovely holiday in Santa Barbara, and reading the accumulated
CSGNet posts, I was delighted to not see one post by Rick Marken about the
California recall vote or Govenor Arnold.
There didn't seem to much of interest from a PCT perspective. But after thinking
about it a bit, I suppose there might be some interesting things to consider in
terms of the importance of words in politics. I think it is interesting, for
example, that Arnold calls himself a "Republican" and that that's enough for the
Republicans to see him as one of their own. But in terms of issues the only thing
Republican about Arnold is his desire to cut taxes -- or at least, not raise them.
And the main tax he wants to cut -- the recently raised license fee -- is highly
regressive so I am completely with him on this. I think Arnold may be a very
clever guy. By wearing the Republican mantle he may be able to pass a highly
progressive income tax (to make up for the increasing regressively of the federal
tax) and get the state budget balanced. That will probably get the state economy
going while the federal economy remains stagnant.
While I do not suspect that Rick refrained because of my prior plea of leaving
out personal opinions on politics or religions in this forum dealing with
psychology theory and practice, it was none the less appreciated to not have to
read any cheap shots from Rick against Arnold, or the "stupid" Californian
voters who put him in the Governer's Seat, for not perceiving the world the way
Rick does.
Actually, I think the California voters were voting for imagery. Arnold appeals to
the reactionaries in the central valley because his image is one of strength and
self-sufficiency. So these right wingers voted for him even though he is pro gun
control, pro gay rights and pro choice, three things that nearly everyone in the
central valley vigorously opposes. Arnold also appeals to a lot of progressives in
the urban areas because his image is one of strength and self-sufficiency. Most
important, Arnold is nothing like the hate filled hypocrites that now paper the
walls of the right-wing. Therefore, I think it's very hopeful that Republicans are
enthusiastic about Arnold. They will either have to progressivize their views to
bring them in line with Arnold's or they'll have to reject Arnold and I'm betting
that most right wingers won't have the intellectual integrity to do the latter.
I didn't vote for Arnold or anyone because I thought the recall was ridiculous. I
simply voted "no" on the recall. But I have hope for Arnold. If he is able to act
to control his perceptions of the things that matter to the state -- budget
balance, employment, standard of living -- instead of controlling for only for a
particular ideology -- no tax increases -- then we might get this state working
even better than it is.
···
Kudos to you Rick. FWIW, I appreciated your "control." And, I hope it will
influence your future behavior on CSGNet.
--
Richard S. Marken, Ph.D.
Senior Behavioral Scientist
The RAND Corporation
PO Box 2138
1700 Main Street
Santa Monica, CA 90407-2138
Tel: 310-393-0411 x7971
Fax: 310-451-7018
E-mail: rmarken@rand.org
Returning from a lovely holiday in Santa Barbara, and reading the accumulated CSGNet posts, I was delighted to not see one post by Rick Marken about the California recall vote or Govenor Arnold.
For weeks, every news program was saturated with reports of this political circus. What a relief to be able to come to this forum and see PCT and perceptions of words and meanings and fairness and even questions and answers posed by a PCT “candidate” discussed. All free of political spam!
While I do not suspect that Rick refrained because of my prior plea of leaving out personal opinions on politics or religions in this forum dealing with psychology theory and practice, it was none the less appreciated to not have to read any cheap shots from Rick against Arnold, or the “stupid” Californian voters who put him in the Governer’s Seat, for not perceiving the world the way Rick does.
Kudos to you Rick. FWIW, I appreciated your “control.” And, I hope it will influence your future behavior on CSGNet.
Bryan Thalhammer (2003.10.22.150’7)
Kenny,
We don’t consider the control
of behavior part of the PCT model. I really thought you knew that.
I would say that we (PCTers) don’t consider control of behavior a good
way for adults to deal with each other. But control of behavior is certainly
something people do and it is something PCT explains (it’s just
regular old control but with perceptual aspects of another person’s behavior
as the controlled variables) so it is part of the PCT model. PCT
also explains why control of behavior can be a problem: because it leads
to conflict. So control of behavior (like all controlling) is part
of the PCT model; it’s just that the PCT model itself shows what it wrong
with this approach to dealing with other people – wrong, that is, if one
wants to avoid interpersonal conflict.
Best regards
I guess I opened the door and you drove your Hummer through it. You do have a Hummer like Arnold does, right? Just kidding. I really do not want to know.
And, I see you have not changed at all, including the cheap shots. Why should you? The kudos is short lived.
Was this and your subsequent post not a cheap shot? Did it not have at all anything to do with PCT? Are you somewhat reorganizing? Ehnnn?? ““stupid” Californian voters” Ehnnn? “I appreciated your ‘control.’ And, I hope it will influence your future behavior…” Kenny, “Behavior is the Control of Perception.” We don’t consider the control of behavior part of the PCT model. I really thought you knew that.
–Bryan
···
-----Original Message----- From: Control Systems Group Network (CSGnet) [mailto:CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU]On Behalf Of Kenneth Kitzke Value Creation Systems Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 8:34 AM To: CSGNET@LISTSERV.UIUC.EDU Subject: Kudos to Rick
[From Kenny Kitzke (2003.10.22.1000)]
Returning from a lovely holiday in Santa Barbara, and reading the accumulated CSGNet posts, I was delighted to not see one post by Rick Marken about the California recall vote or Govenor Arnold.
For weeks, every news program was saturated with reports of this political circus. What a relief to be able to come to this forum and see PCT and perceptions of words and meanings and fairness and even questions and answers posed by a PCT “candidate” discussed. All free of political spam!
While I do not suspect that Rick refrained because of my prior plea of leaving out personal opinions on politics or religions in this forum dealing with psychology theory and practice, it was none the less appreciated to not have to read any cheap shots from Rick against Arnold, or the “stupid” Californian voters who put him in the Governer’s Seat, for not perceiving the world the way Rick does.
Kudos to you Rick. FWIW, I appreciated your “control.” And, I hope it will influence your future behavior on CSGNet.
<Was this and your subsequent post not a cheap shot?>
I did not think it was, nor did I intend it to be.
It was poking some fun at Rick for not posting any political opinions re the recall as if he was doing so in response to my complaint. However, I suspected that was not the reason. I think Rick’s response showed he was indeed controlling for some other perception.
<Did it not have at all anything to do with PCT?>
My comment had something to do with protocol on the CSGNet which I assume is OK in a topic sense.
<Are you somewhat reorganizing? Ehnnn?? ““stupid” Californian voters” Ehnnn? ">
The “stupid” in quotes is a throwback from Rick’s cheap shot at the mentality of our President. Perhaps you do not recall it.
<I appreciated your ‘control.’ And, I hope it will influence your future behavior…" Kenny, “Behavior is the Control of Perception.” We don’t consider the control of behavior part of the PCT model. I really thought you knew that.>
Thanks, Bry, for posting, but I think you have missed the point of my post in a number of ways. My statement above does not equate to saying “control of behavior.” Even if it did, I hope you will take it up with Rick and not me since he refutes your remark.
Anyway, how about letting us know how PCT is affecting your life’s experience so far? Rick and I are too old and set in our ways of perceptual control to be upset by verbal jabs of youngsters like yourself.
At 01:58 PM 10/22/2003 -0400, Richard Marken wrote:
[...] control of behavior is certainly something people _do_ and it is something PCT _explains_ (it's just regular old control but with perceptual aspects of another person's behavior as the controlled variables)
Perceptual aspects of one's own behavioral outputs can also be controlled variables. Thus, we can control the manner or style of doing something, and we can control how we imagine someone else is perceiving our behavior.
<Was this and your subsequent post not a cheap shot?>
I did not think it was, nor did I intend it to be.
It was poking some fun at Rick for not posting any political opinions
re the
recall as if he was doing so in response to my complaint. However, I
suspected that was not the reason. I think Rick's response showed he
was indeed
controlling for some other perception.
Anyway, how about letting us know how PCT is affecting your life's
experience
so far? Rick and I are too old and set in our ways of perceptual
control to
be upset by verbal jabs of youngsters like yourself.
For shame! This is not the Kenny that I know and respect.
[...] control of behavior is certainly something people _do_ and it
is
something PCT _explains_ (it's just regular old control but with
perceptual aspects of another person's behavior as the controlled
variables)
Perceptual aspects of one's own behavioral outputs can also be
controlled
variables. Thus, we can control the manner or style of doing
something, and
we can control how we imagine someone else is perceiving our behavior.
And we can control a perception (not an imagination) of how someone
else reacts to our behavior. We can control, for example, whether
people react to our behavior with kudos or complaints. But, of course,
that's just another example of control of behavior.
Best
Rick
···
---
Richard S. Marken
marken@mindreadings.com
Home 310 474-0313
Cell 310 729-1400
