Law and Order/Fratricide

[Gabriel 921215 05:29 CST]

Bill P. points out that among other things PCT could lead to better
understanding of reasons why people do/do not shoot at each other.

We have two quite different mechanisms in the two societies
chronicled by Rolf Peterson and the Altmans.

Among the wolves:-

Stop hassling you idiots. If you cut each other up, we'll none of us
be able to catch the moose.

Among the baboons:-

Eat your nice leaves junior, and don't sass the boss or the leopard
will get you.

And, uncomfortably close to home:-
In Los Angeles recently, as reported by LtC. William V. Wenger

As I (Wenger) watched in disbelief, a gang member in the car in front
of me, waiting to make a left turn, shot the occupants in the cars
on either side of him. I was unarmed, but quickly followed the shooters,
as did several police cars, until they were apprehended 2 blocks away.
I reported what I had witnessed to the police, and then drove to our
headquarters armory to supervise the mobilzation of my Army National
Guard battalion in Ingelwood, California.

The feedback mechanisms for Altman and Peterson's reports are quite
clear. The need for the pack to function successfully in hunting,
in order to eat, and predation by leopards on baboons, who have no
serious resource shortages in the way of food, but are the victims
of predation.

Any comments on exactly what feedback mechanisms were working and
what were not in Los Angeles??

                John (gabriel@athens.eid.anl.gov)

From Rick Marken (921215.1030)]

Gabriel (921215 05:29 CST)--

The feedback mechanisms for Altman and Peterson's reports are quite
clear.

I didn't see them clearly at all. Could you give a quick diagram of the
"feedback mechanisms" operating in this situation.

Any comments on exactly what feedback mechanisms were working and
what were not in Los Angeles??

Looks like the gang member wanted to see someone shot, saw them shot and
left (because they also wanted to percepive themselves as being "not in
custody",
prbabaly) -- control of feedback. It works because the gang member's actions
have
effects, via the environment, on the gang member's perception ( of things
like whether or not people are shot).

Are you really intrested in what higher level perceptual goal might have been\
satisfied by produce the percpetion of someone being shot? I don't think you
can tell from just looking at the results described in your little scenario.

Best

Rick