[From Richard Pfau (12.01.2010 1905 EST)]
In response to Kenny Kilzke (2011.11.30 1900 EST)
Regarding emotions and PCT, I find Lawrence B. Mohr's thinking persuasive (ref. his book, "The Causes of Human Behavior: Implications for Theory and Method in the Social Sciences," Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1996). Mohr has proposed a model, an Affect-Object Paradigm, whereby the strongest affect in the struggle for influence of behavior ultimately wins, regarding what we do. As he writes, "What is determinative...is the encounter of affects, where the strongest always wins" (p. 95).
Although I am not into developing mathematical models, I presume that it would be possible to mathematically link the extent of affect to error signals associated with differenct controlled variables, such that the positive or negative affect associated with the error signal of what we might call a "more important" controlled variable would increase more quickly as that error signal increases, when compared to increases in the affect associated with error signals of a "less important" controlled variable whose positive or negative affective values would increase less rapidly as those error signals increased.
From: Kenneth Kitzke Value Creation Systems <KJKitzke@AOL.COM>
To: CSGNET <CSGNET@LISTSERV.ILLINOIS.EDU>
Sent: Tue, Nov 30, 2010 6:57 pm
Subject: Level 12
[From Kenny Kitzke (2011.11.30.19.00EST)]
Since we have some new members here (like Chad) thinking big about PCT/HPCT, perhaps it is time to revisit the subject of what is above Level 11, if anything, and see if there are any new ideas to investigate.
I am going to give just a brief conceptual explanation that rumbles around in my mind. I think it is rigorous with most of the theoretical constructs, but have not tried to construct any experiments.
The Twelfth Level I conceive is essentially the SELF. At this level are all the Level 11 system variables and their reference quantities that form what a living human being controls to not perceive error. Somehow, these Levels have to be self consistent so that controlling for one does not produce an error in another.
How a human accomplishes this is another subject. I do not think it is a PCT closed loop system that goes through the environment or receives input from our senses. It is an inside job and a difficult one. It involves one of the aspects of human nature not found to this degree in most other living things. Concepts like creativity and imagination and conscience all come to mind. It is close to what Bill recognizes as the Reorganization that works on the Control System rather than within it.
My only other comment for starters is that I think the most glaring missing element in PCT/HPCT that allows just about anyone, from a housewife to a psychiatrist, to perceive it as not very useful, is that it treats emotions as a side effect and they are not rigorously included in the mathematics or loops. Errors experienced at the Twelfth Level do not illicit body movement of arms, eyes, etc., They are much more matters of what is called the heart, deeper than mere awareness or consciousness of the mind.
This is where human beings find their worth, value and purpose which pleases them. And, what those things are in anyone else is not only vague or unknown, they really are none of our business. What a relief it would be if those who are poor were concerned with their poorness and not anyone else's values, worthiness, purpose or wealth. I think it would set a lot of people free emotionally and if PCT did that, I suspect everyone would be on this CSGNET trying to figure it out.
Now, what do you think? And where does a Level 13 fit in?
In a message dated 11/30/2010 3:06:29 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Chad.Green@LCPS.ORG writes:
Kenny, please initiate a thread on the 12th level because I have a candidate for the 13th that I hope will complete the set (at least for human PCT). I find it odd that this candidate is often treated as if it should be avoided at all costs.
Chad Green, PMP
Loudoun County Public Schools
21000 Education Court
Ashburn, VA 20148
Kenneth Kitzke Value Creation Systems <KJKitzke@AOL.COM> 11/30/2010
1:49 PM >>>
[From Kenny Kitzke (2010.11.30)]
The last post I have received from CSGNET was on Nov. 25. This is
unusual. I miss it. And, I was even going to revisit the idea of the Twelfth
Level. That's a waste of time if nothing is being posted (probably any way).
Is it something on my Internet end or is everyone dead?