level 2

CSGnet Archive CSG2005
1

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.17, 15:10 EST)]

I refer to my Re: Mol [From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.12, 12:25 EST)]

Are these comments about level 2, the sensing level, adequate? Can anyone
help me with my question marks? Are there other questions/comments about
level 2?

In the human organism (HPCT) there are many different input functions
receiving energy from Level 1. This energy comes from bunches of copies of
different first level perceptual signals. And they form new perceptual
signals at level 2. The only thing we know about these perceptual signals is
the frequency.
Level 2 relates to the state of perception signals in different groupings at
the first level. This is very well expressed in B:CP page 101: " A signal
leaving a second-order input function in the form of a neural current
represents a second level sensory abstraction in the nervous system.
......Each second-order perceptual signal is an analogue of a derived
quantity".

The nerve fibers carrying neural currents from first-order input functions
terminate in well-defined volumes of the brain stem known as sensory nuclei.
In the second order input function a second order perceptual signal is
formed as a weighted sum of different signals reaching it. The weighting is
a factor expressing the number of branches coming from the same neuron.
Mathematical expressed; p2 = k1*p1a + k2*p1b + .... Kn*p1m. Here p2 is the
second order perceptual signal in a selected control loop, k1 is the weight
telling how many branches coming from a certain neuron which have a
perceptual signal p1a and k2 is the weight telling how many branches that
come from another neuron with another perceptual signal, p1b.
The weights allow for some inhibiting first order signals and some first
order excitatory signals.

The different perceptual signals at level 2 have their input functions in
different placed sensory nucleus.

Different Input functions, comparators and output functions at level 2:
1. Perceptual signals having their starting points in all essentials in the
muscles; the spinal.
2. Perceptual signals having their starting points in the receptors in the
expansion of the rods and the cones: In the area of Horizontal cells,
Amacrine cells, Bipolar cells.
3. Perceptual signals having their starting points in the receptors in the
expansion of the taste buds: In the taste sensory nucleus in the Brainstem.
4. Perceptual signals having their starting points in the receptors
belonging to olfactory receptor neurones in the expansion of olfactory
epithelium in the nose: The smell sensory nucleus named Glomerulus.

The Sensing level in HPCT control the perceptions of different qualities.
Namely the qualities of colour, taste, smell, tactition, thermoception, the
perception of pain, Equilibrioception,. But I lack knowledge about the
receptors for tactition, thermoception, the perception of pain,
Equilibrioception.

Next week I presume I will continue with Level 3, Configurations. I already
now have problems with the configurations we can control as regards Hearing,
Tasting and Smelling.
Bjorn

2

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.25,12:10 EST)]

From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.17, 15:10 EST)

The Sensing level in HPCT control the perceptions of different qualities.
Namely the qualities of colour, taste, smell, tactition, thermoception, the
perception of pain, Equilibrioception,. But I lack knowledge about the
receptors for tactition, thermoception, the perception of pain,
Equilibrioception.

Let me complete the number of second level vision qualities: colour and
_shape_.

The way I understand these two qualities are for colour: "a number of
different scalar intensities, each multiplied by a weight" How can we
understand shape as a function of intensities? Do we talk about a function
of intensities from rod - intensities?
The way I understand sound is "a number of different scalar intensities,
each multiplied by a weight". I understand a tone as a number of _equal_
frequency sound intensities. A tone is an analogue to a certain colour. In
B:CP Bill mention effort as a second order sound quality. What is effort?
Does anybody know an analogue to effort in the vision quality? Is brightness
the answer?

I understand shape as consisting of different colours (inclusive white and
black), but colour doesn't consist of different shapes. Is taste an analogue
to colour for the taste quality? What is the taste quality analogue to
shape? Is there an effort analogue in the taste quality?

What is the smell quality analogue to shape? What is the smell analogue to
effort?
What is the tactition quality analogue to shape? What is the tactition
analogue to effort?
In Wikipedia I found that the sense of Equilibrioception is the perception
of balance and it is related to cavities containing fluid in the inner ear.
Is this good enough? I don't feel "out of balance" if I turn my head. When
I am standing upright many muscles in my body is more or less tightened. Do
not the intencity signals from different tendons also tell me about my
balancing?
Let me close this mail with a question I asked in [From Bjorn Simonsen
(2005.01.19,12:40 EST)] Re: level 1.
The negative feedback loops and PCT explains very well how a muscle can
change its tension and more. Maybe there aren't any negative feedback loops
in the eye, ear, under the skin etc. before we reach level 3, the
configuration level.
I have always thought that the cones transformed electromagnetic energy to a
perceptual intensity signals at level one and that we sensed a colour as a
weighted sum of intensities at level two. Now I have learned that we have
three types of cones (see What Happens in the Eye? and
next page). Here it looks like the sensing perception takes place more or
less in the cones.

Bjorn

3

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.25,13:30 EST)]

From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.25,12:10 EST)
Is taste an analogue to colour for the taste quality? What is the taste
quality analogue to shape? Is there an effort analogue in the taste

quality?

I sent my last Re: level 2 mail before I had considered very well.

Tasting and seeing have points of resemblance. Our taste buds taste
different qualities as the cones "see" different wavelengths. The intensity
signal, I guess, is a transformation from the concentration of different
chemicals. We have four (five) different taste buds that sense the
sweetness, the sourness, the bitterness and the saltiness (umami). It looks
like the tasting level 1 and level 2 are in the taste buds. Then a part of
our brain is in our tongue in the same way as a part of the brain is in the
retina.
Maybe it is correct to say that the intensity of the chemical concentration
is an analogue to the effort quality in hearing. And maybe the sweetness,
the sourness, the bitterness and the saltiness (umami) are taste qualities
analogue to colour.

Than the concept taste should be a third level configuration??

Bjorn

4

[Martin Taylor 2005.01.25.09.38]

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.25,12:10 EST)]
From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.17, 15:10 EST)

>The Sensing level in HPCT control the perceptions of different qualities.
...Let me complete the number of second level vision qualities: colour and
_shape_.

...The way I understand sound is "a number of different scalar intensities,
each multiplied by a weight". I understand a tone as a number of _equal_
frequency sound intensities.

Actually, the perception of tone quality is much more complicated
than that. It depends largely on the shape and speed of the onset
transient, and on the relations among the different component
frequencies during the onset transient. A sharp onset gives a
different tone quality than a slow one; if the high frequencies start
more slowly than the low, the whole tone quality is different from
what it would be if the high frequencies start more quickly than the
low. And it's different again if the middle frequencies start
fastest. Always I'm talking about tones that wind up having the same
steady-state harmonic structure.

The harmonic structure of the continuing wave does, obviously, have
an effect, but at least for speech and music, the transients are
usually important. For speech, a lot of the perception of, say, an
initial consonant depends on the apparent starting values of the
formant transient leading into the vowel.

I imagine that similar work has been done elsewhere, but it was quite
dramatically demonstrated to me during a visit to IRCAM in Paris
around 20 years ago (it's a centre for the experiemntal study of
music -- or the study of experimental music -- located in the
Pompidou Centre if I remember correctly). I've forgotten the name of
the researcher who I visited, but he made it quite obvious how
differently shaped onset transients had dramatic effects on the
perception of what kind of instrument was playing.

By the way, colour also depends to a large extent not only on the
local colour contrasts, but also on what one might call "edge
transients", as does the perception of brightness. The Koreans used
that fact centuries ago in making pottery which, for example, might
show a bright moon in a dark sky, while physically the main disk of
the moon had the same mid-grey reflectance as the background sky.

How all this relates to "levels", I wouldn't care to guess.

Martin

5

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.26,12:00 EST)]
Martin Taylor 2005.01.25.09.38
Thank you for your comments. You didn't comment my mail about Myelination. I
still think Myelination will lead to action potentials in neurons where
there were no action potentials before. And than signals from one neuron to
another neurone becomes possible. Reorganization.

Actually, the perception of tone quality is much more complicated
than that. It depends largely on the shape and speed of the onset
transient, and on the relations among the different component
frequencies during the onset transient. A sharp onset gives a
different tone quality than a slow one; if the high frequencies start
more slowly than the low, the whole tone quality is different from
what it would be if the high frequencies start more quickly than the
low. And it's different again if the middle frequencies start
fastest. Always I'm talking about tones that wind up having the same
steady-state harmonic structure.

I know you are a musician, and I guess you play pure tones. Yes, this is
understandable. I am not a musician and I am not clever with nomenclature
like pitch and timbre e.g.

The harmonic structure of the continuing wave does, obviously, have
an effect, but at least for speech and music, the transients are
usually important. For speech, a lot of the perception of, say, an
initial consonant depends on the apparent starting values of the
formant transient leading into the vowel.

Interesting. Do we hear sounds with an initial vowel sound more soft than
sounds with an initial consonant? Will I find more words with initial vowels
in hot Blues melodies than I will find in cool Blues melodies?

By the way, colour also depends to a large extent not only on the
local colour contrasts, but also on what one might call "edge
transients", as does the perception of brightness. The Koreans used
that fact centuries ago in making pottery which, for example, might
show a bright moon in a dark sky, while physically the main disk of
the moon had the same mid-grey reflectance as the background sky.

I think I understand how the brain perceives local colour contrasts and also
what you call "edge transients". I have found text about feedback loops from
cones to Horizon cells and back to cones some distance from the other cones.
I don't quite understand the effect yet, but maybe it describes what you
call "edge transients". I don't know.
Yes I have found an URL http://webvision.med.utah.edu/index.html where I am
sure I will be updated on feedbacks and feed forwards in the eye in a way I
way I never have been earlier. Maybe you will hear from me later.
I neither understand how it is possible to see variance between a moon and a
dark sky if they are both painted with the same grey reflectance paint.

Bjorn

6

[Martin Taylor 2005.01.26.15.55]

[From Bjorn Simonsen (2005.01.26,12:00 EST)]
Martin Taylor 2005.01.25.09.38
Thank you for your comments. You didn't comment my mail about Myelination.

That's because I have no special knowledge about it. I leave comments
on things like that to people who really know more than just the
everyday things.

I do, however, remember seeing a picture -- in my mind it looks like
a picture from Science, American Scientist, or Scientific American,
showing how synapses increase or decrease their ability to deliver
quantal packets of the different neurotransmitters, and how they
decay or proliferate. I tried to find it in American Scientist, but
failed. I think it relates to Hebbian learning.

>The harmonic structure of the continuing wave does, obviously, have

an effect, but at least for speech and music, the transients are
usually important. For speech, a lot of the perception of, say, an
initial consonant depends on the apparent starting values of the
formant transient leading into the vowel.

Interesting. Do we hear sounds with an initial vowel sound more soft than
sounds with an initial consonant? Will I find more words with initial vowels
in hot Blues melodies than I will find in cool Blues melodies?

Fascinating question. I'd love to know the answer.

>By the way, colour also depends to a large extent not only on the

local colour contrasts, but also on what one might call "edge
transients", as does the perception of brightness. The Koreans used
that fact centuries ago in making pottery which, for example, might
show a bright moon in a dark sky, while physically the main disk of

>the moon had the same mid-grey reflectance as the background sky.

I neither understand how it is possible to see variance between a moon and a
dark sky if they are both painted with the same grey reflectance paint.

What the Korean potters did was to make the sky-grey gradually darker
the closer to the moon, then make an abrupt transition to a very
light grey, and slowly grade the grey back to the same level as the
main background sky. A bit like this:

                       x
                       xx
                       x x
                       x x
xxxxxxx x xxxxxxxxxxxx
               x x
   Sky x x Edge of Moon Middle of Moon
                     x x
                      xx
                       x

Your eye is less sensitive to gradual changes of grey level than it
is to equal amounts of change that happen abruptly, so it looks as if
the middle of the moon is much brighter than the surrounding sky.

Martin