Level 5

CSGnet Archive CSG1998
1

From Phil Runkel on 28 Oct 98 in response to Bill P's of same

date concerning level 5:

        An artist, to contribute a new view, must be able to see
what the rest of us cannot see. A scientist likewise. I was
charmed to see, through your description, what so many of us
would not have seen even if we had looked at that video or a
hundred other rats or videos.

        But is it possible to look at a rhythmic repetition as a
repeated program or as a sequence of programs?

        Although I welcome your postulated levels, if only to show
so clearly the kind of inclusiveness relation that must exist
among the levels, I often wonder whether the hierarchy that every
individual builds as it grows into maturity is measurable
different from others. Or whether miniature hierarchies are
built every hour to suit a miniature situation. I am thinking
here of modeling that you and Marken and Bourbon have done that
contains tiny hierarchies. Often I can put one of your labels on
one of those levels by then cannot put another of your labels on
the adjacent level in that tiny hierarchy.

        It is always a pleasure to watch you think. Or intuit. Or
invent. And same to you, Mary.

2

Hi, Phil --

       But is it possible to look at a rhythmic repetition as a
repeated program or as a sequence of programs?

Not a program -- programs contain choice points. A sequence, maybe, except
that a sequence is primarily concerned with ordering, not timing. The
rhythmic repetition emphasizes timing, and those things we were calling
events. All this probably needs more work.

Although I welcome your postulated levels, if only to show
so clearly the kind of inclusiveness relation that must exist
among the levels, I often wonder whether the hierarchy that every
individual builds as it grows into maturity is measurably
different from others. Or whether miniature hierarchies are
built every hour to suit a miniature situation.

I wonder about those things, too. That's why I don't worry too much when
our explorations of models seem to involve hierarchical relations different
from those in the Official List.

From time to time I warn people that if they take the Levels List as gospel

and build up a lot of deductions on it, they're likely to find themselves
in the position of being mad at me for trying to improve the model.

Best,

Bill P.