link

[Matti]

[From MK (2016.07.14.1310 CET)]

The control process that allows a subgoal to be achieved is a link.

A link is a component of an environmental feedback loop.

A pen provides a link for controlling a perception of writing thoughts.

The link is a link in a chain.

The lever is a link for moving a rock.

But the common use of the shorthand should not lead one to forget that
the link is not the object, but is a link in the feedback path of a
controlled perception.

The concept of link applies not only to properties of physical objects
we call "tools", but also more abstract constructs. For example, the
stability of someone's liking for a particular food can be a link for
controlling a perception of that person's pleasure as a guest at your
table.

from the viewpoint of the control loop, whether the link is a property
of an object is irrelevant.

The tool builder controls perception of the perceptions for which a
property of the tool should be a potential link.

To go into verbal detail every time one wants to talk about a link
would be very tedious, and is often pointless.

That property may be called a "designed link".

A tool like a Swiss Army knife is designed to have many different
properties that could become links for control of frequently
controlled perceptions.

For the thief, his environmental feedback loop is made up of a chain
or network of links, of which the controlled perception "stealing" is
one.

Influencing another's links need not decrease the other's power.

In one of Kent's examples, a whole community of people combine to
build and maintain a road, giving you the power to use a car as a link
for controlling a perception of your movement between two places on
the road, whereas before the road, you might have had to cut your way
through a jungle.

In his LCS IV chapter, Kent points out how stability of social
structures can also be used as a link.

These are fairly stable roles, and each has a designed set of
properties that can be used a link for control of different
perceptions.

The stability of these roles, independent of the person playing the
role, enhances the power of anyone with the ability to use those links
for controlling perceptions.

More generally in power relationships, the conflict issue is in the
availability of links.

The one with more global power (more ability and strength to control a
lot of perceptual variables) has more ability to acquire links, and if
necessary, to deny them to others.

I hope this sketchy introduction gives you an idea of why and when the
concept of a /link/ is useful.

M

[rsmarken]

[From Rick Marken (2016.07.14.1410)]

···

MK (2016.07.14.1310 CET) –

MK: The control process that allows a subgoal to be achieved is a link.

RM: But a very different kind of link than an environmental feedback link.

MT: A link is a component of an environmental feedback loop.

RM: What is an environmental feedback loop? Do you mean an environmental feedback function?

MT: A pen provides a link for controlling a perception of writing thoughts.

RM: Yes, as I said, a very different kind of link than the lower level control systems that exist between what you intend to write and the outputs that move the pen to produce the intended writing.

MT: The concept of link applies not only to properties of physical objects

we call “tools”, but also more abstract constructs. For example, the

stability of someone’s liking for a particular food can be a link for

controlling a perception of that person’s pleasure as a guest at your

table.

RM: Then the concept of link just obscures what is going on here. In this example the “link” refers to the fact that a person is controlling for eating a particular type of food. So to the extent that the person’s reference for this food remains the same, you can control for the perception of seeing that person express pleasure by serving her that food. Calling consistent control for a particular food a “link” --like the fork the person uses to eat the food – is clearly mistaking two quite different things as being the same. TO see the difference, consider the fact that a person might start controlling for a different food – say steak instead of lobster – and now that person’s preference can no longer be used as a link to get the expression of pleasure you used to get by serving her steak. But the fork doesn’t change its mind (reference) for what it will pick up – it will pick up bites of lobster just as willingly as it will pick up bites of steak.

MK: From the viewpoint of the control loop, whether the link is a property

of an object is irrelevant.

RM: Actually, that is true. But it’s important for the person analyzing the situation to know the difference between an environmental feedback link (like a fork) and a living control system feedback link (like a person controlling for eating certain kinds of food). So conflating the two kinds of feedback links under the same rubric basically does away with the most important distinction made in PCT – that between control and causal systems.

Best

Rick

The tool builder controls perception of the perceptions for which a

property of the tool should be a potential link.

To go into verbal detail every time one wants to talk about a link

would be very tedious, and is often pointless.

That property may be called a “designed link”.

A tool like a Swiss Army knife is designed to have many different

properties that could become links for control of frequently

controlled perceptions.

For the thief, his environmental feedback loop is made up of a chain

or network of links, of which the controlled perception “stealing” is

one.

Influencing another’s links need not decrease the other’s power.

In one of Kent’s examples, a whole community of people combine to

build and maintain a road, giving you the power to use a car as a link

for controlling a perception of your movement between two places on

the road, whereas before the road, you might have had to cut your way

through a jungle.

In his LCS IV chapter, Kent points out how stability of social

structures can also be used as a link.

These are fairly stable roles, and each has a designed set of

properties that can be used a link for control of different

perceptions.

The stability of these roles, independent of the person playing the

role, enhances the power of anyone with the ability to use those links

for controlling perceptions.

More generally in power relationships, the conflict issue is in the

availability of links.

The one with more global power (more ability and strength to control a

lot of perceptual variables) has more ability to acquire links, and if

necessary, to deny them to others.

I hope this sketchy introduction gives you an idea of why and when the

concept of a /link/ is useful.

M

–

Richard S. Marken

“The childhood of the human race is far from over. We
have a long way to go before most people will understand that what they do for
others is just as important to their well-being as what they do for
themselves.” – William T. Powers

[MartinT]

[Martin Taylor 2016.07.14]

[From MK (2016.07.14.1310 CET)]

The control process that allows a subgoal to be achieved is a link.

A link is a component of an environmental feedback loop.

A pen provides a link for controlling a perception of writing thoughts.

The link is a link in a chain.

The lever is a link for moving a rock.

But the common use of the shorthand should not lead one to forget that
the link is not the object, but is a link in the feedback path of a
controlled perception.

The concept of link applies not only to properties of physical objects
we call "tools", but also more abstract constructs. For example, the
stability of someone's liking for a particular food can be a link for
controlling a perception of that person's pleasure as a guest at your
table.

>From the viewpoint of the control loop, whether the link is a property
of an object is irrelevant.

The tool builder controls perception of the perceptions for which a
property of the tool should be a potential link.

To go into verbal detail every time one wants to talk about a link
would be very tedious, and is often pointless.

That property may be called a "designed link".

A tool like a Swiss Army knife is designed to have many different
properties that could become links for control of frequently
controlled perceptions.

For the thief, his environmental feedback loop is made up of a chain
or network of links, of which the controlled perception "stealing" is
one.

Influencing another's links need not decrease the other's power.

In one of Kent's examples, a whole community of people combine to
build and maintain a road, giving you the power to use a car as a link
for controlling a perception of your movement between two places on
the road, whereas before the road, you might have had to cut your way
through a jungle.

In his LCS IV chapter, Kent points out how stability of social
structures can also be used as a link.

These are fairly stable roles, and each has a designed set of
properties that can be used a link for control of different
perceptions.

The stability of these roles, independent of the person playing the
role, enhances the power of anyone with the ability to use those links
for controlling perceptions.

More generally in power relationships, the conflict issue is in the
availability of links.

The one with more global power (more ability and strength to control a
lot of perceptual variables) has more ability to acquire links, and if
necessary, to deny them to others.

I hope this sketchy introduction gives you an idea of why and when the
concept of a /link/ is useful.

M

I realize you are quoting my efforts to make plain just what an "atenfel" is (which Rick apparently still hasn't managed to understand) with "link" substituted for "atenfel". These short fragments from a conversation between Kent McClelland and me in December 2014 might be relevant. If Kent approves, I'll copy the whole long message, which contains a fair amount of the thread leading to these fragments and winds up with the first mention of "atenfel" as a possible name for the concept.

-----start copy (me to Kent, Dec 15, 2014)----

We need a word for a link that provides a means whereby a particular perception might be influenced. My latest effort at that was "magher" from old Indo-European "magh-" "to be able, to have power". A magher is one who makes able, or gives power. In modern English, a "maker". The motto "many means to the same end" can be transcribed as "Any perception may have several maghers".

...

Anyway, the short answer after a long rigmarole is that I do think the value added by having a precise word outweighs the problems of adding to the specialized vocabulary of PCT. I don't much care what the word is, provided it is easy to say, has the right kind of connotations, and can be worked into circuit discussions. I tried to think of one based on "link". Even "link" itself might work, despite having a real-world meaning that is different. A "magher" is a potential, whereas a "link" is actually used, and I'm not sure whether the "gossamer web" can carry the weight of real links in a chain.

----end copy----

The fact you are quoting me doesn't mean I agree with all it says. Specifically, I should not have written "environmental feedback loop" when I was referring to the path from output of a particular control unit -- through lower-level control loops, physical objects and the environmental correlates of other people's (and animals') controlled perceptions, and back through lower level perceptual functions -- to the inputs to the original control unit's perceptual input function. That's not a loop; I should have written "environmental feedback path". The "environment", of course, is the environment of the control unit, not of the person.

I'm still prepared to consider a word based on "link", but I'm not really happy with using simply "link". I did like the concept of "magher" but not the word, since "making able" is the whole point of an atenfel.

Martin

[MartinT]

[Martin Taylor 2016.07.14.18.50]

Sorry I forgot the time-stamp on my previous message. Here's a postscript.

Influencing another's links need not decrease the other's power. More generally in power relationships, the conflict issue is in the
availability of links.

The one with more global power (more ability and strength to control a
lot of perceptual variables) has more ability to acquire links, and if
necessary, to deny them to others.

In these quotes, "link" doesn't really fit, whereas the "making able" connotation of the earlier "magher" word did, and since "atenfel" by design has the same connotation, it does also. In those quotes, the nearest normal English word I can think of, though it doesn't fit terribly well, is "ability", as in

Influencing another's /abilities/ need not decrease the other's power. More generally in power relationships, the conflict issue is in the
availability of /abilities/.

The one with more global power (more ability and strength to control a
lot of perceptual variables) has more ability to acquire /abilities/, and if
necessary, to deny them to others.

To use "ability" here, take it in this sense: If you have both the knowhow AND a piece of copper wire, you have the ability to connect two terminals electrically. With knowhow and NO wire, you do not have that ability.

Martin

···

[Martin Taylor 2016.07.14]

[From MK (2016.07.14.1310 CET)]

The control process that allows a subgoal to be achieved is a link.

A link is a component of an environmental feedback loop.

A pen provides a link for controlling a perception of writing thoughts.

The link is a link in a chain.

The lever is a link for moving a rock.

But the common use of the shorthand should not lead one to forget that
the link is not the object, but is a link in the feedback path of a
controlled perception.

The concept of link applies not only to properties of physical objects
we call "tools", but also more abstract constructs. For example, the
stability of someone's liking for a particular food can be a link for
controlling a perception of that person's pleasure as a guest at your
table.

>From the viewpoint of the control loop, whether the link is a property
of an object is irrelevant.

The tool builder controls perception of the perceptions for which a
property of the tool should be a potential link.

To go into verbal detail every time one wants to talk about a link
would be very tedious, and is often pointless.

That property may be called a "designed link".

A tool like a Swiss Army knife is designed to have many different
properties that could become links for control of frequently
controlled perceptions.

For the thief, his environmental feedback loop is made up of a chain
or network of links, of which the controlled perception "stealing" is
one.

Influencing another's links need not decrease the other's power.

In one of Kent's examples, a whole community of people combine to
build and maintain a road, giving you the power to use a car as a link
for controlling a perception of your movement between two places on
the road, whereas before the road, you might have had to cut your way
through a jungle.

In his LCS IV chapter, Kent points out how stability of social
structures can also be used as a link.

These are fairly stable roles, and each has a designed set of
properties that can be used a link for control of different
perceptions.

The stability of these roles, independent of the person playing the
role, enhances the power of anyone with the ability to use those links
for controlling perceptions.

More generally in power relationships, the conflict issue is in the
availability of links.

The one with more global power (more ability and strength to control a
lot of perceptual variables) has more ability to acquire links, and if
necessary, to deny them to others.

I hope this sketchy introduction gives you an idea of why and when the
concept of a /link/ is useful.

M

I realize you are quoting my efforts to make plain just what an "atenfel" is (which Rick apparently still hasn't managed to understand) with "link" substituted for "atenfel". These short fragments from a conversation between Kent McClelland and me in December 2014 might be relevant. If Kent approves, I'll copy the whole long message, which contains a fair amount of the thread leading to these fragments and winds up with the first mention of "atenfel" as a possible name for the concept.

-----start copy (me to Kent, Dec 15, 2014)----

We need a word for a link that provides a means whereby a particular perception might be influenced. My latest effort at that was "magher" from old Indo-European "magh-" "to be able, to have power". A magher is one who makes able, or gives power. In modern English, a "maker". The motto "many means to the same end" can be transcribed as "Any perception may have several maghers".

...

Anyway, the short answer after a long rigmarole is that I do think the value added by having a precise word outweighs the problems of adding to the specialized vocabulary of PCT. I don't much care what the word is, provided it is easy to say, has the right kind of connotations, and can be worked into circuit discussions. I tried to think of one based on "link". Even "link" itself might work, despite having a real-world meaning that is different. A "magher" is a potential, whereas a "link" is actually used, and I'm not sure whether the "gossamer web" can carry the weight of real links in a chain.

----end copy----

The fact you are quoting me doesn't mean I agree with all it says. Specifically, I should not have written "environmental feedback loop" when I was referring to the path from output of a particular control unit -- through lower-level control loops, physical objects and the environmental correlates of other people's (and animals') controlled perceptions, and back through lower level perceptual functions -- to the inputs to the original control unit's perceptual input function. That's not a loop; I should have written "environmental feedback path". The "environment", of course, is the environment of the control unit, not of the person.

I'm still prepared to consider a word based on "link", but I'm not really happy with using simply "link". I did like the concept of "magher" but not the word, since "making able" is the whole point of an atenfel.

Martin