[From Rick Marken (2001.10.24.2140)]
Bruce Nevin (2001.10.24 21:09 EDT)--
If we're talking about how the appearance of an aggregate value can
arise from autonomous control systems each controlling different but
environmentally related variables, then it's the wrong model.
I agree. It would have been the wrong model if I were trying to show how
the appearance of an aggregate value can arise from autonomous control
systems each controlling different but environmentally related
variables. But I wasn't trying to do that. I was just trying to show
that several control systems acting together can act like a single,
virtual control system, keeping a variable in a virtual reference state.
My mistake. I didn't realize that you preferred to model conflict
among many control systems over the same variable.
It was just the first thing I thought of. Not very realistic, I agree. I
just changed the model so that each of 10 independent control systems
control a completely _different_ variable relative to a different
reference specification and, lo and behold, the average value of all
these variables is kept in a virtual reference state. The virtual
controlled variable is the average value of the variables controlled by
the 10 systems. A single, virtual control system, controlling the
average of these 10 variables, behaves just like like the 10 independent
systems working together. The single virtual control system is, thus, an
accurate functional model of the behavior of this "society" of 10
individual control systems.
Best regards
Rick
ยทยทยท
--
Richard S. Marken
MindReadings.com
marken@mindreadings.com
310 474-0313
[
from Bill Powers (2001.10.25.0722 MDT)]
Rick Marken (2001.10.24.2140)--
I just changed the model so that each of 10 independent control systems
control a completely _different_ variable relative to a different
reference specification and, lo and behold, the average value of all
these variables is kept in a virtual reference state. The virtual
controlled variable is the average value of the variables controlled by
the 10 systems. A single, virtual control system, controlling the
average of these 10 variables, behaves just like like the 10 independent
systems working together. The single virtual control system is, thus, an
accurate functional model of the behavior of this "society" of 10
individual control systems.
That's damned clever. Of course. Heck, you could randomly pick any 10
control systems anywhere in the world, thousands of miles apart,
controlling 10 totally different kinds of variables, and they would still
act like a virtual control system controlling the average value of the 10
(one-dimensional) controlled variables. You create the aggregate by
choosing the 10 systems -- they don't have to know about or interact with
each other at all.
It seems to me that unless they interact with each other, in the
environment, there's no justification for treating the control systems as
part of one social entity. If you chose the 10 systems, how likely would
anyone else be to come across the same "virtual control system?" If it
exists, secretly, _only_ in your perceptions, can we treat it as real? And
even if you told us which systems you had chosen, would that be enough to
make it real? I should think that there would have to be something about
the systems themselves, some sort of interaction, that would make the
association of systems _discoverable by anybody who looked_. Averaging 10
arbitrarily-chosen variables together does not make the "system"
discoverable by anybody who looks.
Best,
Bill P.
[Martin Taylor 01.10.29 12:15
From Bill Powers (2001.10.25.0722 MDT)]
It seems to me that unless they interact with each other, in the
environment, there's no justification for treating the control systems as
part of one social entity.
In case anyone is interested, I gave a talk four years ago on more or
less this topic to the U of Toronto Math Club. It is on my web site
at <http://www.mmtaylor.net/PCT/Mutuality/index.html>\. The idea was
to show how social structures can develop from control systems that
interact through the environment.
I know it's a bit dated, and it wasn't intended for a PCT-savvy
audience, and the figures are just scans from overhead
trasnparencies, but in spite of all that you might find something
there that could stimulate discussion on social structures.
I know some of you looked at it when I first mentioned having put it
on the Web, but it again seems possibly relevant, especially now,
since the mechanism also seems to suggest why the clash of cultures
can become so violent in spite of involving only a few members of
each interacting group.
Martin