[From Kenny Kitzke (991119)]
<Mary Powers (991117)>
<Well, Kenny, if you do subject your will to your wife's will quite often,
aren't you breaking the rules of the Bible "which require the husband to be
head of the household and head over his wife"?>
Of course not. Do you not comprehend the Biblical concept of a benevolent
ruler?
<I think that what you are doing here is interpreting the Bible as it suits
you ->
It is quite evident that you do this very thing you accuse me of doing. Your
understanding of the Bible is quite limited, and understandably so.
<in this case you are taking an ancient document from a culture in
which women were possessions to be transferred from father to husband for
financial and political reasons - and by showing how nice you are to do
what your wife wants you provide a 20th century justification for it to be
ok to have authority over her.>
The ancient document which you perceive is the one I perceive as inspired by
the Ancient of Days, the being who created all things. "Financial and
political reasons?" What a joke. Show me the verses where the Bible deals
with marriage or women that way. The cultures you talk about and their
religions were what the people of God were called to separate themselves from
and to live differently.
The wisdom in the most widely read book ever written may look foolish to you,
and indeed, it predicts that very thing. I do not need to justify having
authority over my wife. I have it and she willingly agrees. Ask her. Get
some data. If you and Bill have different perceptions that work for your
perceptual relationship, that is fine. I feel no need to criticize your
justifications.
<Including there being (unspecified) limits
to your authority, which is not necessarily justified in the Bible either
except by careful selection of supporting evidence and elimination of
anything contradictory.>
This is Mary babble. How can you make such unwarranted claims and expect any
credibility? My wife and I know what the limits are regarding our marriage
and whether you do or not, or whether you accept them or not for your
marriage, doesn't mean a hoot to us. Worse, especially as a PCTer who should
know this is illusionary at best, you put your words to what I do and even
why I do them (my intentions) which you haven't a clue about and can't
possibly understand.
<Of course if she wants something from you she has
to ask you in an acceptable way or no dice, and you call the shots on
what's acceptable.>
And, when you want something from Bill, do you just demand your rights
whether he accepts them or not?
<It's very nice when a husband and wife do things for each other, but your
biblical approach makes it a power thing, in which all this talk of
submission and will implies that you do things for your wife only as a
favor, while she is simply doing her duty in doing things for you, the
head. That is why I was asking what love has got to do with it. Because
none of this seems very loving.>
Again, this is merely what it implies to you. What we do is done out of
love, for one another, and for our Creator. Love has everything to do with
it for us. And, it is our business as human beings to believe so and do so.
We surely don't need your approval. And, I doubt if you have any special
insight into what "loves got to do with it" than Tiny Turner.
<To which I can only say that if a
couple has high reference levels for keeping each other comfortable and
happy, and low reference levels for being the boss, submission is a
non-issue.>
If that is your basis for a marriage till death do you part, fine. Write a
book about it. More than half the marriages in our enlightened age fail.
Perhaps your wisdom would help half the people alive? It would be a far
bigger hit than B:CP or MSOB. Yea. Keep each other comfortable and happy.
Yep. That is what they have not figured out. Go for it.
<Why make things more difficult than they need to be by trying
to satisfy a biblical requirement for an authoritarian chain of command?>
It is not difficult for us. It works great.
<Surely thatit can only make a marriage relationship more of a struggle than
it would otherwise be.>
No. Our marriage was indeed a struggle _before_ we turned to the Bible way.
Now it is rock solid, and better than ever. We "reorganized" and found a
better way which is totally consistent with PCT. What's been your experience
with marriage? Is the relationship you share with Bill based on anything
special or different from that you would perceive for a good relationship
with anyone, say a good friend?